Darth Vader ROTJ Reveal mask my build

No Humor Man · **Posted:** Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:55 pm

I'm sorry for my part in ruining your motivation. I really like your build and hope you'll finish it and be happy with it.

kroenen77 · **Joined:** Sun May 23, 2010 7:50 pm **Posts:** 59

Thanks.I think you did only what your nature is.No problem,No Humor Man. :wink:

banthapoodoo · **Posted:** Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:32 am

Indeed, as his nature is to be unswerving in his dedication to this forum; from day-to-day operations, to being a helpful and active member, to implementing the forum's policies and standards, without bias, for the benefit of all its members.

kroenen77 · **Joined:** Sun May 23, 2010 7:50 pm **Posts:** 59

You can give him medal for that! :wink:

From the point as a mod here I can understand what he did.I´m from Germany...and Germany is the country of bureaucrats! :wink:

But from the point as a propmaker or collector not.
I reworked the complete piece and I was only so honest(or stupid) to say what I did.I said that because there are a lot of people out there,that are not happy with their portumac-kits and I wanted to show what you can do with it.And now I´m a Recaster if I wanna make some copys of my own work.Because of some DP DLX areas from a never proofed source.Oh and I reworked the eyebrows,too...like ROTJ..so one point less! :cool:

"forum's policies and standards"...hm,that is the problem because some members must bring proofs for their sources and others not.Did portumac ever proofed that he used his own DP helmet for his masks?Or a lot of others that are selling helmets for years?How did the recasterhunters proof that?Are there hunderds of pics with the mold and the originalowner next to him holding a label with his name on it?I would say no.So this system is a joke in itself,because you cannot 100% proof that a person really used his own helmet.Only credent people like me who are talking everything on the boards are the victims.If I had sayed that I used my own old DP DLX-mold as the base for my mask,everything would be fine.But now its a big problem!That alone shows how insecure this Recastersystem is.Politics like that will create a "Recasterboard" some day...and on this board everyone can sell recasted stuff for everybody.Is that the goal?I wouild say no. :pale

GermanBat · **Posted:** Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:11 pm

O.K. guys sorry but I have to say that now in "German" to kroenen77 and I do it short.

Verdammt noch mal kümmere Dich nicht darum was andere Dir sagen als gut gemeinter Tipp, dass hat mir bereits vor vielen vielen Jahren das Leben derart schwer gemacht denn auch ich wurde vom RPF verbannt weil ich angeblich einen E-11 Blaster recasted habe den ich tatsächlich auf Ebay gekauft habe und dann wieder verkauft habe.
Mein zweiter großer Fehler auf dem RPF war das ich mich mit einem sogenannten RPF Gott angelegt habe, wo ich auch nur ein Teil mit exakt den Angaben weiter verkauft hatte als wie ich es selber gekauft hatte. Im großen und ganzen ist das RPF nur ein einziger großer Witz und ein so Elitärer Kreis der gerne unter sich bleiben möchte!!!

Nun aber zu Deiner Arbeit das ist das beste das ich seit langem überhaupt gesehen habe und ich liebe Dein Auge fürs Detail und das sage ich mit vollem Ernst als ROTJ Liebhaber. Würde mich freuen wenn Du mich einfach mal bei Zeit unter GKo1040480@aol.com anschreiben würdest.

Gruß Guido

Turrican · **Posted:** Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:30 pm

GermanBat wrote:

O.K. guys sorry but I have to say that now in Germany to kroenen77 and I do it short.

Verdammt noch mal kümmere Dich nicht darum was andere Dir sagen als gut gemeinter Tipp, dass hat mir bereits vor vielen vielen Jahren das Leben derart schwer gemacht denn auch ich wurde vom RPF verbannt ....
Mein zweiter großer Fehler auf dem RPF war das ich mich mit einem sogenannten RPF Gott angelegt habe....
Im großen und ganzen ist das RPF nur ein einziger großer Witz und ein so Elitärer Kreis der gerne unter sich bleiben möchte!!!

Gruß Guido

Wilkommen im Club. :thumbsup

Kenn ich , war bei mir genauso.
Elitär ist am RPF gar nix. Es sei denn man steht auf Analsekrete... RPF ...stinkt.
Amen.

dday · **Joined:** Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:18 am **Posts:** 7

So, excuse me for bringing up an older point... Why is it ok to recast a DP Deluxe, but not a Porty?

This doesn't make sense to me. Either it is recasting or it is not?

I see sometimes it is ok a recast things like a 20th Century, or a tour helmet, or a DP deluxe, what makes these ones ok to make copies of and not things like a Porty or a Stone or Bookface?

Why are they ALL not off limits, someone did the work to make these, so somewhere no matter what you are recasting something.

Darth Obsession · **Posted:** Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:55 pm

dday wrote:

So, excuse me for bringing up an older point... Why is it ok to recast a DP Deluxe, but not a Porty?

This doesn't make sense to me. Either it is recasting or it is not?

I see sometimes it is ok a recast things like a 20th Century, or a tour helmet, or a DP deluxe, what makes these ones ok to make copies of and not things like a Porty or a Stone or Bookface?

Why are they ALL not off limits, someone did the work to make these, so somewhere no matter what you are recasting something.

Nobody wants to see their work or product recast. I can't speak for 20th century, but in the case of a tour or a DP, who is going to object?
The tour did it's job, it's done. DP isn't making DV helmets anymore. So who's there to object? I don't think LFL will react, unless you produce
in some level of volume.

On my own side, I completely reworked my SPFX ANH into an ROTJ. I modified every surface and it bares no resemblance to the cast as I bought it.
If I chose to cast it and sell copies is that recasting SPFX?

John

kroenen77 · **Joined:** Sun May 23, 2010 7:50 pm **Posts:** 59

Darth Obsession wrote:

Nobody wants to see their work or product recast. I can't speak for 20th century, but in the case of a tour or a DP, who is going to object?
The tour did it's job, it's done. DP isn't making DV helmets anymore. So who's there to object? I don't think LFL will react, unless you produce
in some level of volume.

On my own side, I completely reworked my SPFX ANH into an ROTJ. I modified every surface and it bares no resemblance to the cast as I bought it.
If I chose to cast it and sell copies is that recasting SPFX?

John

Hm..when the job is done you can recast it?Ok...so I can recast everything from MR(the company is out of business)...oh and from every older limited prop that is out of production,right?Or from an older handsculpted prop when the builder is out of business? :toothy

The thing with Star Wars is...some people that are selling helmets must have a reason why their own recasted base is ok and yours not. :wink:

The most Vaderhelmets out there are only recasts of licensed helmets with some modifications..Recasts of Brian Muirs work!That is the major problem...how much modifications you need to say that its your own design?And who decides this?

You can only protect what you did with your own hands on the Originaldesign.So the Originaldesign is not your or my work.

A real RECAST is,when you copy a part 1:1 with no sculpting work on it.So every copy of a screenused helmet is a recast of Brian Muirs handsculpted work.That is a FAKT.So from the recasterrules everyone who wants to use a copy of an originalmask must ask Muir himself to give his permission to use his work.But I think Muir would say...NO...so nobody could sell helmets if he has no license from Fox or Lucasfilms/Disney. :wink:

This system is very spongy...but the biggest guys on the boards are making the rules.And if you want to be a member there you must eat that.Or you get banned. :pale

About your ROTJ helmet:

I would say your ROTJ helmet is not a recast if you cannot see the work from SPFX.All Originalareas are not his work.
But its forbidden to make a mold because you told here that it was a SPFX before. :rolleyes

And about the RPF:I had no problems there so I cannot talk something bad about it.I had no problems with the big names there.

Its really a shame that you will get problems on the board if you only use an old mold under your work that you payed.If I would use a head of a manikin under my clay I must ask the manikin-company? :rolleyes

Darth Niob · **Posted:** Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:46 am

Not to forget one point.....SPFX and Portumac also recasted the most of the stuff they offer :wink:

kroenen77 · **Joined:** Sun May 23, 2010 7:50 pm **Posts:** 59

Darth Niob wrote:

Not to forget one point.....SPFX and Portumac also recasted the most of the stuff they offer :wink:

I´ve heared that...but I´m not an expert about recasterstorys..so I said nothing! :wink:

Darth Niob · **Posted:** Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:19 pm

Oh they recasted pretty everything they got in their hands :lol

Darth Obsession · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:17 am

kroenen77 wrote:

Darth Obsession wrote:

Nobody wants to see their work or product recast. I can't speak for 20th century, but in the case of a tour or a DP, who is going to object?
The tour did it's job, it's done. DP isn't making DV helmets anymore. So who's there to object? I don't think LFL will react, unless you produce
in some level of volume.

On my own side, I completely reworked my SPFX ANH into an ROTJ. I modified every surface and it bares no resemblance to the cast as I bought it.
If I chose to cast it and sell copies is that recasting SPFX?

John

Hm..when the job is done you can recast it?Ok...so I can recast everything from MR(the company is out of business)...oh and from every older limited prop that is out of production,right?Or from an older handsculpted prop when the builder is out of business? :toothy

The thing with Star Wars is...some people that are selling helmets must have a reason why their own recasted base is ok and yours not. :wink:

The most Vaderhelmets out there are only recasts of licensed helmets with some modifications..Recasts of Brian Muirs work!That is the major problem...how much modifications you need to say that its your own design?And who decides this?

You can only protect what you did with your own hands on the Originaldesign.So the Originaldesign is not your or my work.

A real RECAST is,when you copy a part 1:1 with no sculpting work on it.So every copy of a screenused helmet is a recast of Brian Muirs handsculpted work.That is a FAKT.So from the recasterrules everyone who wants to use a copy of an originalmask must ask Muir himself to give his permission to use his work.But I think Muir would say...NO...so nobody could sell helmets if he has no license from Fox or Lucasfilms/Disney. :wink:

This system is very spongy...but the biggest guys on the boards are making the rules.And if you want to be a member there you must eat that.Or you get banned. :pale

About your ROTJ helmet:

I would say your ROTJ helmet is not a recast if you cannot see the work from SPFX.All Originalareas are not his work.
But its forbidden to make a mold because you told here that it was a SPFX before. :rolleyes

And about the RPF:I had no problems there so I cannot talk something bad about it.I had no problems with the big names there.

Its really a shame that you will get problems on the board if you only use an old mold under your work that you payed.If I would use a head of a manikin under my clay I must ask the manikin-company? :rolleyes

Definitely a tough call. I don't know that Brian Muir would be the one to go to, since I'm sure all of his Vader work became the
property and domain of Lucasfilm, but it would be interesting to know what he actually had to say about it.

kroenen77 · **Joined:** Sun May 23, 2010 7:50 pm **Posts:** 59

Darth Obsession wrote:

Definitely a tough call. I don't know that Brian Muir would be the one to go to, since I'm sure all of his Vader work became the
property and domain of Lucasfilm, but it would be interesting to know what he actually had to say about it.

I´m not talking about the rights...from this point nobody could sell something,because FOX would 100% say..NO! :wink:

The Recasterhunters are saying that they wants to protect the work of the artists.If they would protect the real rights(that the studios have),a recast of a licensed helmet like the DP DLX would be a No Go.So we are talking about the work of the artist..and that is Brian Muir.
And if Muir would say ok...you could only recast a helmet from one,that he had casted in person.Every other cast from another person would be a problem with the recasterrules.How you can see on my build...portumacs DP DLX areas are protected because he casted it...from what a source is not important!
And now say that this system is not....well thought out! :wink:

banthapoodoo · **Posted:** Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:04 pm

kroenen77,

I want to clarify that my post earlier was simply to encourage respectful discussion; it was not to take sides.

This forum's definition of recasting is "copying or re-creating the work of another without the owner’s permission for sale or other personal profit."

I think that you have developed a reasonable argument that the work you are doing is not "recasting". If the Portumac-specific changes to the DPDLX (it's presumed base) are not present in your item, then I would say you haven't copied or re-created his work. Using the copyright law analogy of a "derivative work", one can claim ownership only to their modifications, not to the original, unmodified portions. And it seems that you have reverted to an original form before making your changes, or you have directly implemented your modifications from other references (and did you get permission to use those? :nono

)

Its not a question of whether recasting is good or bad that's being debated, it's whether in this specific case it can be labeled as recasting. I know this is not to be put up for a vote, but I at least wanted to submit my opinion. Obviously it's important as it could result in your being banned and have a chilling effect on future submissions of this kind.

BP