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 Post subject: Re: ESB and RotJ Vader helmet's -what do we know?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:10 pm 
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Thanks for clarification Tom. Now what have we been discussing for me to think that regarding this TM :hehe-err


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 Post subject: Re: ESB and RotJ Vader helmet's -what do we know?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:33 pm 
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vadermania wrote:
I assume that when some members here talk about a "lighting helmet" they are probably referring to the TM ESB.

Just for clarification, I'd like to post an excerpt of an email from the seller again (it was already posted on the TM ESB Vader helmet thread some time ago):

"...the helmet was actually my partners and it was given to him when he was a young boy by his uncle who worked on the set as a fibro plasterer. He made the majority of the helmets, masks etc. The helmet you have was made either before or during the making of ESB and it was made for the stand in if needed, but the helmet was not called upon, so was given to my partner. ..."

As I understand it, the helmet was made for a stand-in, but it wasn't needed. So it has probably never seen the lights of the ESB set.



Hi Tom...by "stand in" do you think that refers the TM being used by someone that would jump in and take Prowes's place during filming for whatever reason...or as a second filming helmet should something happen to the screen used?

Sorry if this is a dumb question...I'm tired. :slp


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 Post subject: Re: ESB and RotJ Vader helmet's -what do we know?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:38 pm 
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T-VIRUS,

Wikipedia has the following definition: "A stand-in in film and television is a person who substitutes for the actor before filming, for technical purposes such as lighting."

A stand-in is not necessarily limited to being a person. A while back, I saw a casting of Patrick Stewart's bust in either a Star Trek book or sci-fi magazine, and the picture description stated it was used for lighting testing.


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 Post subject: Re: ESB and RotJ Vader helmet's -what do we know?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:39 pm 
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Thanks Mac...that makes sence to me now. :thumbsup


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 Post subject: Re: ESB and RotJ Vader helmet's -what do we know?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:12 pm 
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I'm not looking to question the authenticity of a specific helmet, but was the owner (or partner of the owner) of the TM a known individual that could be specifically linked to the movie (i.e. it came with cast-iron provenance)?

Otherwise IMO its probably safer to concentrate on the 6 helmets we can be sure were screen-used in ESB.

Cheers

Jez


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 Post subject: Re: ESB and RotJ Vader helmet's -what do we know?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:14 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: ESB and RotJ Vader helmet's -what do we know?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:23 am 
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Yeah thats the pic I was thinking of, Jedi right?

In which case it'd be great to work out which ones (if any) were ESB used

IIRC they produced the RotJ helmets from the same mould that was used for the ESB (ie. they didnt recast an ESB, just used the same ANH mould)

Cheers

Jez


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 Post subject: Re: ESB and RotJ Vader helmet's -what do we know?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:45 pm 
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BingoBongo275 wrote:
I'm not looking to question the authenticity of a specific helmet, but was the owner (or partner of the owner) of the TM a known individual that could be specifically linked to the movie (i.e. it came with cast-iron provenance)?

Unfortunately I was not able to identify this person yet. Here's an excerpt from another email from the seller after I tried to get some more information about the helmet:
"...Sorry, no good news. My partners uncle feels he is not inclined to answer any question and thinks that the questions may be more of a fishing expedition which could lead to problems for all concerned. We were unaware of the court battle going on at the moment but now that we are, we agree that no questions can be answered for the protection of all. I am sorry and we hope you understand. ..."

BingoBongo275 wrote:
Otherwise IMO its probably safer to concentrate on the 6 helmets we can be sure were screen-used in ESB.

I perfectly agree to that. Let's focus on the screen-used helmets.

It is my opinion that there were two stunt Vader helmets made for ESB. One is the PA, the other one was extensively used at the end of ROTJ and is still in the LFL archives (the "fat-lipped" Vader faceplate). Here's a pic of the faceplate which I took during my visit:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: ESB and RotJ Vader helmet's -what do we know?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:35 pm 
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Quote:
It is my opinion that there were two stunt Vader helmets made for ESB. One is the PA, the other one was extensively used at the end of ROTJ and is still in the LFL archives


Tom, just out of curiousity, I know that face features in ROTJ but out of interest I can't find anything like this faceplate in ESB, unless it was originally ESB and I am misunderstanding you? I was just interested in placing it as a 2nd stunt made for ESB. ROTJ definately but I can't find it as I said. So maybe the question I should pose is: Do you think it was originally made and as an extra helmet unused for ESB, or do you think it was originally an ESB? I put it down as the latter, myself (if at all) in which case it won't count as a possible 7th casting, hope that makes sense? :salut , not unless you have found it in ESB, which is something I haven't seen.


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 Post subject: Re: ESB and RotJ Vader helmet's -what do we know?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:34 pm 
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Darthvaderv wrote:
Quote:
It is my opinion that there were two stunt Vader helmets made for ESB. One is the PA, the other one was extensively used at the end of ROTJ and is still in the LFL archives


Tom, just out of curiousity, I know that face features in ROTJ but out of interest I can't find anything like this faceplate in ESB, unless it was originally ESB and I am misunderstanding you? I was just interested in placing it as a 2nd stunt made for ESB. ROTJ definately but I can't find it as I said. So maybe the question I should pose is: Do you think it was originally made and as an extra helmet unused for ESB, or do you think it was originally an ESB? I put it down as the latter, myself (if at all) in which case it won't count as a possible 7th casting, hope that makes sense? :salut , not unless you have found it in ESB, which is something I haven't seen.


Well, I think this faceplate was originally made for ESB together with the Paul Allen stunt, but it was not used in ESB, but in ROTJ instead.


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 Post subject: Re: ESB and RotJ Vader helmet's -what do we know?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:39 pm 
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If the guy is really so concerned about his partner's uncle then that by itself implies that the helmet came from a production source, otherwise why even say that it came from his partner's uncle. And it would not be too difficult to find out who that uncle is...I would then just call him up and say "hey did you work on ESB?" "Were you involved with fabrication of the ESB Vader helmets?". Just act like an informed fan :lol


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 Post subject: Re: ESB and RotJ Vader helmet's -what do we know?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:53 pm 
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Ok so far we have 7 helmets, from what I can tell being said. I was studying screencaps (over 50 of vader) and trying to match up helmets based on grill patterns and certain facial details. The Dagobah helmets prove to be a task as far as the two seen in the cave. This is what I have so far:

Cloud City, Hoth, SSD (1 helmet on screen):
Image

All SSD (1 helmet on screen):
Image

All Dagobah, all different helmets used, not counting (?) (3 definite on screen, possibly 5?):
Image

Reveal, Hoth/ANH, Stunt (3 helmets on screen):
Image

So far that's a total of 8 actual helmets used in the movie and seen on screen. I'm still trying to match up a few on Cloud City. There's something about two of them that I have to look at before I put them in one of the categories.

These are most likely the same helmet with PD which makes them look different from each other. The chin vent seems a bit different/smaller than those above. It may possibly fall into the 2nd category of helmets above, but is it the same helmet?
Image


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 Post subject: Re: ESB and RotJ Vader helmet's -what do we know?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:44 am 
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Great analysis DK....that's what we needed...and I think ya that Dinner helmet is the same just different perspectives...when you see the behind the scenes of that scene everything seemed to be shot pretty quickly...


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 Post subject: Re: ESB and RotJ Vader helmet's -what do we know?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:04 am 
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Just another shot of that ANH-style ESB mask...so was this scene early in the shooting schedule at Elstree?

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 Post subject: Re: ESB and RotJ Vader helmet's -what do we know?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:56 am 
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I seem to remember reading that was the first scene shot and the helmet wast fitting correctly..maybe from Prowse's book?


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