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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:24 pm 
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Interesting. I'd say the helmet matches the ESB onesheet helmet more than the mask. The mounting system is that of post ANH-pre ESB era. They must have made a few of these, as the funeral pyre helmet also has a system identical to this, and so does the ANH helmet in the archives.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:27 pm 
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I'm very interested to know what came with this from B and N?


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:40 pm 
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Zuka Zamamee wrote:
Interesting. I'd say the helmet matches the ESB onesheet helmet more than the mask. The mounting system is that of post ANH-pre ESB era. They must have made a few of these, as the funeral pyre helmet also has a system identical to this, and so does the ANH helmet in the archives.


Indeed, a very interesting helmet. Could it be an early post-ANH-pre-ESB tour helmet? I have handled an ANH style dome with an identical mounting system during my visit in the archives in 1995.

What if the funeral pyre helmet and the other existing ANH style helmet in the archives AND this new "mystery" ANH style helmet are all remaining tour helmets?


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:49 pm 
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Location: UK
vadermania wrote:
Zuka Zamamee wrote:
Interesting. I'd say the helmet matches the ESB onesheet helmet more than the mask. The mounting system is that of post ANH-pre ESB era. They must have made a few of these, as the funeral pyre helmet also has a system identical to this, and so does the ANH helmet in the archives.


Indeed, a very interesting helmet. Could it be an early post-ANH-pre-ESB tour helmet? I have handled an ANH style dome with an identical mounting system during my visit in the archives in 1995.

What if the funeral pyre helmet and the other existing ANH style helmet in the archives AND this new "mystery" ANH style helmet are all remaining tour helmets?


This was exactly what I was thinking!

The owner's provided some detail as to measurements using vernier calipers. Though I have a 20thC here and a GH I dont have calipers to hand so will leave others to comment....

Cheek to cheek - it's 149.1mm. Given there's a small dent in his right cheek you may need to add a mill.
Inside nose - 21.9mm
Horizontal chin vent - 48.6mm
Nose bridge (bottom eye to bottom eye) - 27.9mm
Nose bridge (top of eyes) - 26.4mm
Cheek tube to cheek tube (due to damage, taken in line with the mouth) 127.7mm
Helmet width corners (taken with a big ruler, so give or take a mm or 2) - 320mm

After some checking the B&N tag looks to be legit. It came on a cod piece that came with the helmet and some other (no tagged) parts.

IMO at the very least its an extremely early ANH tour helmet which combined some other parts makes a lot of sense. If so then IMO its an important piece to find - especially if it helps us fill in some of the gaps.

Wish it was mine!

Cheers

Jez


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:27 pm 
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Lovely helmet indeed! :cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:51 pm 
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That is really interesting it shares the mounting mechanism with the Pyre and archive helmets. I didn't realize it was identical.
Thanks for the measurements, Jez, I'll check them out. I think if it is an ANH tour helmet (or promotional helmet might be a better term as this helmet might not have actually been on tour although it came with a codpiece?), it is good to see there were actually tour helmets since there were those in the past that thought there was no such thing. It is great to see a piece of the timeline.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:32 pm 
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Location: San Jose, CA
vaderman wrote:
There seems to be a lot of excitement about this new find. I don't understand why because there are so many details that are wrong which can only have come about by being remoulded and recast many times. The screen original does not have the distortions that appear on this helmet and mask.


I agree with your statement. I guess that its age somewhat tainted my perceptions based on a love of old things, antiques, etc. and I tend to try to see more what's right than what's wrong, hoping that maybe someone overpainted or oversanded the piece to the extent paint can be removed and the original surfaces be restored, if not approximated.

I forgot to post this comparison image earlier, but despite the loss of various aspects, I liked how much the dome looked right, whereas many vendor and fanmade domes are quite off.

Image

Even as a tour piece, it still holds its general shape well enough to be a believable Vader at a distance.

Just trying to think positive. :thumbsup


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:25 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
That is really interesting it shares the mounting mechanism with the Pyre and archive helmets. I didn't realize it was identical.
Thanks for the measurements, Jez, I'll check them out. I think if it is an ANH tour helmet (or promotional helmet might be a better term as this helmet might not have actually been on tour although it came with a codpiece?), it is good to see there were actually tour helmets since there were those in the past that thought there was no such thing. It is great to see a piece of the timeline.

Well, my objections regarding the tour helmets was in regards to them looking like the GH style fan helmets.

If ANH tour helmets existed and if this is one of them... well, I'll be the first to admit that my stance on there being no additional helmets to the original on the ANH tour was wrong. Though... we need more info about the history of this helmet before such can be established.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:09 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
That is really interesting it shares the mounting mechanism with the Pyre and archive helmets. I didn't realize it was identical.
Thanks for the measurements, Jez, I'll check them out. I think if it is an ANH tour helmet (or promotional helmet might be a better term as this helmet might not have actually been on tour although it came with a codpiece?), it is good to see there were actually tour helmets since there were those in the past that thought there was no such thing. It is great to see a piece of the timeline.


You said it looked like a 20th Century derivative a few posts ago.

SithLord wrote:
Thanks, Jez, for kindly showing us this casting. I agree with Brian, it's a later generation. The nosebridge is narrower and curved on the sides when looking in front view...that's one dead giveaway. It's proportions in the face (smaller mouth) suggest 20th C derivative. The tubes are shaped/defined like a 20th C as well. The right rear neck is straighter, too. I think I can tell where it was added to on the widows peak to make it look ANH, as there is a little bit of ESB shape left there, and the center ridge seems more like ESB with straighter sides. The definition of the crown/flaring division line also suggests something closer to a GH helmet. But I'm going to have a closer look at the photos to see if I can make out any detail in the helmet.


I think centre ridge is spot on bar the dent in the peak.
As opposed to being smoothed out in places I think that it may be very heavily sprayed.
I think the dome has a very accurate shape - the best I've seen in fact.


Last edited by AnsonJames on Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:09 pm 
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NoHumorMan wrote:
I'll be the first to admit that my stance on there being no additional helmets to the original on the ANH tour was wrong. Though... we need more info about the history of this helmet before such can be established.



Heh, I got blasted by you early on regarding tour suits having never existed unless proven otherwise, so I didn't suggest this as a possibility. :toothy


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:59 pm 
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There were most certainly tour suits made... exclusively for Toys 'R Us. Vader, Trooper, Wookie...


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:11 am 
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Great find, Jez....nice pix.

Despite the various conflicting Expert observations...You'd have to be blind to not see that this helmet has "The Look"....especially in the first pic that you had posted. That certain unquantifiable detail that many of the fan-mades don't possess.
Very, very nice...and interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing what other info that your friend divulges.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:37 am 
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Jez, as your collector friend has been good enough to allow photos of this helmet to be posted, do you think we'd be able to see the cod and other bits??


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:43 am 
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Zuka Zamamee wrote:
There were most certainly tour suits made... exclusively for Toys 'R Us. Vader, Trooper, Wookie...


So this could have been one of them (i.e. not worn by Kermit Eller)?

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:47 am 
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Íf its a tour helmet or not...it has the look and in my opinion its one of the absolutely nicest DV i've seen to date :drool


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