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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:49 pm 
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vaderman wrote:
That's right Thomas you don't know so why quote it on a 'facts only' thread?

I've been very careful to only give facts that I know to be true from being on the film but you're suggesting some unnamed person's opinion overrides that and quite honestly I find that quite insulting and it insults the intelligence of all the other members of the forum.

Brian


SithLord wrote:
It's another account, so please stop patronizing me with the COC.



A lot of what you are stating as fact is conjecture in that there is possibility it is true, but has not formally been proven true. Notice how you just throw supposition after supposition out, and then add statements like, "I'm sure someone might be able to confirm this." and you yourself do not follow through with confirming it -- instead you just put the burden of doing that in others' hands.

Why don't you confirm it first before throwing it out? Otherwise, instead of stating it, just ask questions humbly of Brian like everyone else. What he says is fact and IMHO needs no "establishing."

And yes, I am referring to this thread, not "another account." Bringing the CoC to your attention is most appropriate. The CoC was established so that everyone would contribute to a positive online experience rather than one person throwing out unsubstantiated thought after the other and have everyone else feel patronized, having the burden of disproving those thoughts thrown at them.


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:48 pm 
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I, for one, would not rely on the word of actors in costume. Hell, Prowse probably still thinks the helmet was a solid black color and not two-tone. Disagreeing is okay, SL, but when the creator of the pieces in question tells you how they were created...how about taking his word for it? I can remember every piece of artwork I put pencil/pen to paper on. I think it is fair to say a sculptor would remember every bit of clay his hands have touched.


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:35 pm 
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Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
I, for one, would not rely on the word of actors in costume. Hell, Prowse probably still thinks the helmet was a solid black color and not two-tone. Disagreeing is okay, SL, but when the creator of the pieces in question tells you how they were created...how about taking his word for it? I can remember every piece of artwork I put pencil/pen to paper on. I think it is fair to say a sculptor would remember every bit of clay his hands have touched.


Exactly - This is by no means being disrespectful to Dave Prowse but when I spoke to him at Memorabilia about 18 months ago he couldn't remember having a full body mould and his head mould taken from him which is quite a big thing. In the process he fainted and the plasterers had to call the nurse who revived him with smelling salts.
His memories seem to be tied up more with the interaction with the other actors and with George Lucas.

Brian


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:06 pm 
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It's quite surreal (and very cool) that we can confirm really important details with the person that sculpted Darth Vader yet there's still certain people questioning those facts.
It's time for a reality break - there's no one on the planet that knows more about the creation of Vader than Brian.

Maybe Kermit Eller and the guy that gave him the suit know some things but what where they doing during the making of ANH?

Where they even working for Lucasfilm in 1976?


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:16 am 
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AnsonJames wrote:
It's quite surreal (and very cool) that we can confirm really important details with the person that sculpted Darth Vader yet there's still certain people questioning those facts.
It's time for a reality break - there's no one on the planet that knows more about the creation of Vader than Brian.

Maybe Kermit Eller and the guy that gave him the suit know some things but what where they doing during the making of ANH?

Where they even working for Lucasfilm in 1976?


Please don't get me wrong I'm not questioning how Brian created anything. I know there were fiberglass shins, the question is were they switched during production?

Kermit got the suit from someone who played a key role in the production of ANH. I'm simply asking the question if they were vacuformed or switched during production. But even if they were not switched, why do they look like the production shins?


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:19 am 
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vaderman wrote:
Exactly - This is by no means being disrespectful to Dave Prowse but when I spoke to him at Memorabilia about 18 months ago he couldn't remember having a full body mould and his head mould taken from him which is quite a big thing. In the process he fainted and the plasterers had to call the nurse who revived him with smelling salts.
His memories seem to be tied up more with the interaction with the other actors and with George Lucas.

Brian



Good point....and that was a great story...perhaps a bit of selective memory on his part LOL. Well for what it's worth, I've always taken your word over Dave's.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:27 am 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
A lot of what you are stating as fact is conjecture in that there is possibility it is true, but has not formally been proven true. Notice how you just throw supposition after supposition out, and then add statements like, "I'm sure someone might be able to confirm this." and you yourself do not follow through with confirming it -- instead you just put the burden of doing that in others' hands.

Why don't you confirm it first before throwing it out? Otherwise, instead of stating it, just ask questions humbly of Brian like everyone else. What he says is fact and IMHO needs no "establishing."

And yes, I am referring to this thread, not "another account." Bringing the CoC to your attention is most appropriate. The CoC was established so that everyone would contribute to a positive online experience rather than one person throwing out unsubstantiated thought after the other and have everyone else feel patronized, having the burden of disproving those thoughts thrown at them.



Kermit got the ORIGINAL SCREEN USED SUIT at the start of the ANH tour in 1977. FACT

The shins he got were vacuformed and NOT fiberglass. FACT

Back to the question....were fiberglass shins worn throughout the ANH production? And if so, when and why were they switched? And if not, when and why were they switched?


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:35 am 
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SithLord wrote:
The shins he got were vacuformed and NOT fiberglass. FACT


Proof, please?


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:37 am 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
SithLord wrote:
The shins he got were vacuformed and NOT fiberglass. FACT


Proof, please?



If you would like proof you may ask him...


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:26 am 
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SithLord wrote:
CSMacLaren wrote:
SithLord wrote:
The shins he got were vacuformed and NOT fiberglass. FACT


Proof, please?



If you would like proof you may ask him...

Not to be too argumentative here, but at this point, your "fact" becomes hearsay.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 3:06 am 
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SithLord wrote:
CSMacLaren wrote:
SithLord wrote:
The shins he got were vacuformed and NOT fiberglass. FACT


Proof, please?



If you would like proof you may ask him...



So in that statement you're telling us you can say anything you want and have us accept it as fact without proof -- deflecting the burden of proof to us readers to ask Brian.

And my quoting the Code of Conduct was inappropriate -- just how?

I'm sure Brian has better things to do with his time than to have to field the community's questions each time you make uncorroborated statements. You're blatantly disregarding the Code of Conduct and you're patronizing Den members.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:32 am 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
SithLord wrote:
CSMacLaren wrote:
SithLord wrote:
The shins he got were vacuformed and NOT fiberglass. FACT


Proof, please?



If you would like proof you may ask him...



So in that statement you're telling us you can say anything you want and have us accept it as fact without proof -- deflecting the burden of proof to us readers to ask Brian.

And my quoting the Code of Conduct was inappropriate -- just how?

I'm sure Brian has better things to do with his time than to have to field the community's questions each time you make uncorroborated statements. You're blatantly disregarding the Code of Conduct and you're patronizing Den members.



Wrong. In that statement I am providing the reason I stated the fact. Someone who wore the original screen suit is witness to that fact. In a court of law there would be cross-examination of that witness. If the witness substantiates the claim then it's considered a factual statement in lieu of direct evidence to the contrary. Regardless, you don't have to accept what I say as fact if you don't want to. Find out for yourself and then we'll see who is making uncorroborated statements or not. You always want the facts handed to you on a silver platter and don't bother doing any research yourself. And you essentially accuse me of lying. When information comes your way all you can do is complain about it instead of trying to find out yourself to verify whether it is true or not, or even appreciate that I am providing information. This is no different from when I stated information I got from Brian Muir on the RPF and people questioned it there. If you don't believe me then fine, find out for yourself and get back to me.

I know fully well what the COC is, you don't have to quote it. If I am breaching the COC I am sure one of the mods will remind me as such. But you act like you are a mod.

And I think Brian can speak for himself, he doesn't need you as an advocate to elaborate on to how he prefers to spend his time.

If you like to judge people so easily then have the mods ban me. It won't change the fact that the original suit had vacuformed shins. Whether they were switched during the production is something I'd like to know. If that is a breach of the COC to provide information then I wonder what this forum is for.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:34 am 
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SithLord wrote:
Back to the question....were fiberglass shins worn throughout the ANH production? And if so, when and why were they switched? And if not, when and why were they switched?


We'll never know.

The fibreglass shins could have been damaged or they could have been replaced for practical reasons for the tour.
Were there any stunt items made for ANH?

If I personally heard Eller saying the shins the he received were vac formed it may go some way to helping me believe they were ABS - without that it's not a fact.

They look like the production shins because they were moulded from production shins.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:44 am 
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SithLord wrote:

Wrong. In that statement I am providing the reason I stated the fact. Someone who wore the original screen suit is witness to that fact. In a court of law there would be cross-examination of that witness. If the witness substantiates the claim then it's considered a factual statement in lieu of direct evidence to the contrary. Regardless, you don't have to accept what I say as fact if you don't want to.


Thanks,
I won't accept your statement as fact, you've pushed your theories as fact way too many times for me to blindly accept what your saying.

SithLord wrote:
It won't change the fact that the original suit had vacuformed shins. Whether they were switched during the production is something I'd like to know.


It's not even slightly confirmed the original suit had vac formed shins - these are the sort of definitive and sweeping remarks that prevent me from blindly accepting what you're saying.

If Eller were given ABS shins for the tour it proves nothing and it certainly doesn't mean they were made for the production.
That's pure conjecture on your part.

SithLord wrote:
If that is a breach of the COC to provide information then I wonder what this forum is for.


The forum is a place to gather information to ascertain the facts.
You can have as many theories as you like, unless you have real proof to back them up please don't try and sell them as anything else.
That's just misleading

Incidentally, I think Mac would make a bloody great Mod!


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 7:16 am 
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Believe what you want to believe. Kermit got the suit from someone who worked on the ANH production, and it wasn't some anonymous crew member. The shins he got were vacuformed. If you think I'm lying then when you find out the answer please let us know. If you think you'll never know the truth, then you'll never find it. If you make the effort to investigate, maybe you'll find that what I am saying is the truth. If I think it is conjecture I will say as such. I have no a priori reason to offer another suggestion as to what the shins were made of and certainly no reason to, as has been implied, counter what Brian thinks, nor did I because I agree and know that fiberglass shins were made because I saw evidence of that. All I am saying is that, as Kermit got them from LFL as part of the original screen-used suit, they were vacuformed. That's all I'm saying.


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