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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH not-so-friendly discussion thread ;)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:15 am 
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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH not-so-friendly discussion thread ;)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:00 am 
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SithLord wrote:
vadermania wrote:
Thomas, please be so kind and use the image below of the original TM faceplate for all future comparisons, since the test pull that I have borrowed you for comparisons is distorted in some places.

Additionally, I would like to re-new my offer to compare the original TM faceplate with the original TD faceplate as long as the original TM faceplate is in the US. Let me know what you think of this proposal.


Thanks, Tom, let me know what you would like me to do with the comparisons I showed. I'll need to rephotograph the TM copy I have and the TD because that photo you show is closer in and from a lower angle.

Although I am a bit baffled. I thought the original TM had broken tubes on the ends, no eye covers molded in, and there were bubbles in parts of the resin on the face? So the original has been modified or restored?


That's correct, the original has been restored.

SithLord wrote:
I see the neck is correct. But if that's the case then why does DK's mask have exactly the same curvature profile on the right rear side as my copy, whereas this mask photo shows something else. If mine was misshapen then it wasn't the only one.


This is true also, there were several faceplate casts of the original run of 10 which are warped in different spots, most prominently on the right neck and on the "crown". The owners were informed of this and we found an arrangement to get the problem fixed.

SithLord wrote:
I was asked about the direct comparison of faceplates previously and I appreciate the offer. However, as I stated before in private, I have my reasons for declining. If there is going to be openness about everything, it works both ways. But that has not been the case. And as you know it has nothing to do with our own discussions.


Ok, I understand. I see what I can do from my end to help supporting this idea. Maybe we can together find an arrangement which will benefit both "parties". I'm open to any suggestions.

SithLord wrote:
Also I welcome photos of the TM ANH taken similar to what I showed of the TD with SL helmet...or other angles and I'll match them...


As I have mentioned before, I am planning a new thread about the TM ANH faceplate in the public section of this forum.


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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH not-so-friendly discussion thread ;)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:16 pm 
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It would really be great to have an inperson review, measurements and photos of the SL, TD and TM! :cheers

I would love to see these without all the hidden detail and modified images.....

:thumbsup


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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH comparison and discussion thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:56 pm 
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Thomas, what is your point? Your TD face has been restored as well, and much more poorly than the TM. The TM lacks the shortened tube cuts of the TD. The TM has a weirder angled eyebrow over the left eye (If I am not mistaken) than the TD. As far as flaws go, that eyebrow is the only one you have shown.

I anxiously await the TM thread. I have a towel in hand for the drool.


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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH not-so-friendly discussion thread ;)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:05 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
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A beautiful setup, Thomas :thumbsup I'd love to see your original SL dome paired with the original TM ANH faceplate one time.

May I ask what would be your terms for a possible TD - TM comparison? :)


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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH comparison and discussion thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:33 pm 
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Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
Thomas, what is your point? Your TD face has been restored as well, and much more poorly than the TM. The TM lacks the shortened tube cuts of the TD. The TM has a weirder angled eyebrow over the left eye (If I am not mistaken) than the TD. As far as flaws go, that eyebrow is the only one you have shown.


How do cut tubes on the TD represent "restoration"? Maybe you can point out to me or indicate where you think the TD has been restored....and in such a poor manner?

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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH comparison and discussion thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:22 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
Thomas, what is your point? Your TD face has been restored as well, and much more poorly than the TM. The TM lacks the shortened tube cuts of the TD. The TM has a weirder angled eyebrow over the left eye (If I am not mistaken) than the TD. As far as flaws go, that eyebrow is the only one you have shown.


How do cut tubes on the TD represent "restoration"? Maybe you can point out to me or indicate where you think the TD has been restored....and in such a poor manner?

Oh dear GOD, are we going to do this again? Why else would you cut the tubes, Thomas? Look at the tubes, even in comparison to your lid, which you KNOW has provenance.


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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH comparison and discussion thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:35 pm 
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Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
SithLord wrote:
Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
Thomas, what is your point? Your TD face has been restored as well, and much more poorly than the TM. The TM lacks the shortened tube cuts of the TD. The TM has a weirder angled eyebrow over the left eye (If I am not mistaken) than the TD. As far as flaws go, that eyebrow is the only one you have shown.


How do cut tubes on the TD represent "restoration"? Maybe you can point out to me or indicate where you think the TD has been restored....and in such a poor manner?

Oh dear GOD, are we going to do this again? Why else would you cut the tubes, Thomas? Look at the tubes, even in comparison to your lid, which you KNOW has provenance.



Although it's presumptuous of me to put words in the man's mouth I don't think that is at all what Thomas is saying. Clearly, to me at least, the tusk ends have not been restored--they are still cut off: I.E. no restoration. Certainly there was modification at some point in the helmet's lineage but it has not been not "restored" the way the TM tusks have, of necessity, been repaired (and with great skill I might add). To me "restoration" implies that an attempt has been made to return the helmet to its original condition or appearance, or as close as possible, and this has not happened with the TD. I know this is just semantics but a lot of lengthy, pointless arguments have gone on over a lot less.

Sorry to interrupt.

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH comparison and discussion thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:19 am 
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dcarty wrote:
Although it's presumptuous of me to put words in the man's mouth I don't think that is at all what Thomas is saying. Clearly, to me at least, the tusk ends have not been restored--they are still cut off: I.E. no restoration. Certainly there was modification at some point in the helmet's lineage but it has not been not "restored" the way the TM tusks have, of necessity, been repaired (and with great skill I might add). To me "restoration" implies that an attempt has been made to return the helmet to its original condition or appearance, or as close as possible, and this has not happened with the TD. I know this is just semantics but a lot of lengthy, pointless arguments have gone on over a lot less.

Sorry to interrupt.

Dave

I'm just trying to come up with a logical reason for sawing off the tube tips and the only thing I can think of is that the repair to the broken tubes went well past the mouth. Then, whoever did the repair, may have thought they were supposed to be cut off for whatever reason.


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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH comparison and discussion thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:10 am 
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Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
I'm just trying to come up with a logical reason for sawing off the tube tips and the only thing I can think of is that the repair to the broken tubes went well past the mouth. Then, whoever did the repair, may have thought they were supposed to be cut off for whatever reason.


Well as Dave mentioned I just think they were cut off. I think you mean that they were broken off, restored, and then cut off? If they were restored in some way then the point at which the top and bottom tubes merged would not be as sharp as it is...that V-shaped convergence point is sharper and deeper than even the SL...and that's how it looks onscreen on the screen mask. And how the tubes come together as well...they are perfect in their lines...that is if you follow the top line of the top tube down to the end it's perfect. If you follow the same line on the TM or SL there's a slight discontinuity in that line suggesting something changed on the end. In fact, there is extra material around the ends of the tubes on the SL (in the casting). If you look at it in front view it's like a slight buldge around the end but on the TD it is perfectly smooth...one would expect the tubes to have been sculpted smoothly along their lengths up until the ends where the tusks would be, at least that is what I would assume. You are probably right and they could have been cut off because of damage...broken off tusks or whatever...but there doesn't appear to be any sign of restoration, and a simpler explanation is that they were just cut off. It's hard to describe so I might try to illustrate. Plus, if there was repair of the tubes next to the mouth, there would be some kind of evidence of that in the undercut of the upper tube where it meets the mouth, and there isn't any material or junk inside that undercut suggesting restoration.

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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH comparison and discussion thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:20 pm 
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Yes everyone is correct - the TD tubes were cut and although they were never made good the intention was there. The proof is on the end of the tube which has not as yet been shown.

Brian


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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH comparison and discussion thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:09 pm 
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Thanks as always, Brian, for clarifying things, it is appreciated.

I thought I'd post another example for Tom of the TM mask/SL helmet combo....it would be interesting to see one like this of the TM ANH....

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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH comparison and discussion thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:24 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
I thought I'd post another example for Tom of the TM mask/SL helmet combo...


:) :) :)

SithLord wrote:
...it would be interesting to see one like this of the TM ANH...


? ? ? - you mean with the original TM ANH faceplate?


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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH comparison and discussion thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:27 pm 
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Well or just any TM ANH example.....

Glad you liked that one...I thought it would get your attention :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH comparison and discussion thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:35 pm 
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Nice combo.


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