Let me just sum up what I have learned so far from this thread (regarding Vader faceplates of course ):

- all three faceplates (VP, TM and TD) have something in common with the ANH Vader faceplate.
- the sculpting pattern on the lower chin vent is identical on all three faceplates
- the tusk tips on the TM were broken off and have been restored recently by JRX
- the tusk tips on the TD are shorter than the screen-used faceplate
- the TD faceplate is the largest of the three, followed by the TM and the VP
- the tabs and some surface detail on the VP master has been sanded off prior to molding
- the TM has three "intact" casted tabs
- the TD has two intact casted tabs identical to the TM and one tab with a part broken off on the cast
- the TD is painted black, both the TM and the VP are unpainted
- the TM has a neck extension which a trim line. The neck extension has been added prior to molding
- the TD has a longer neck which fits the GH master armour perfectly

Now to the backstory of each faceplate:

- backstory supplied by previous owner: the TM "ESB" helmet was supposedly made before or during the production of ESB. It was acquired by vadermania from ebay. According to the previous owner, the helmet was given to his or her partner when he was a boy by his uncle, who worked as a fibro plasterer at Elstree studios. The uncle was responsible for the majority of helmets made for ESB. This particula helmet was made for the stand-in. When it was no longer needed, it was given to the boy.
- Theory by SL: the TD faceplate was supposedly made before or during the production of ANH as a test faceplate for fitting purposes. It was cast from a pull of the original ANH faceplate molds, which was already outfitted with tabs and possibly with grills, too. The TD faceplate was then painted black at the production. It was cast again, a subsequent faceplate may have been used on-screen.
- backstory of the VP - need some help here...

It seems like the source of all three faceplates is Great Britain.

Did I forget anything?

I am happy to hear you comments.

There are limits to what is tolerated here. Even though we have worked from a set of guidelines, there has always been a strict code of what is accepted and what is not. Recent events have called for clearer rules and we are currently working on writing those to satisfy the members requesting them.

It would be a shame to lock this thread, but it WILL BE if there is any more personal bashing or baiting or fighting.

You are all free to disagree, but to disagree with malicious intent or rude remarks are not. If the discussion can't be kept on a civil and level headed track, the staff will be forced to shut it down.

Be warned!!!

My 100th post here.

Sorry folks - you know how frustrating it can get on the forums sometimes.
We all want to be right about our theories but ultimately we can't be right all the time.
I have my own beliefs about certain aspects of the VP and hopefully Chris will help me to validate them.

If I'm wrong I'll accept that graciously.

Apologies once more for losing my temper - I'm as passionate about this subject as the rest of you guys.

Lets try and unearth some genuine facts...

Cheers -

AJ

Just a point of clarification. The broken tab on mine is not part of the casting...it really broke off after it was cast. Not sure if that was what you meant or not.

Well I have my theory but there's also a backstory. But first let me clarify that the screen mask didn't come from the mold that came off the clay master. That's partly why there's some confusion here. I'm not saying my mask came from the original mold and never did. But it might come from the mold the screen mask came from.

The backstory to my mask actually appeared on the Ebay ad so it's probably something some of you have read already. But there was a prop lady who worked on ANH and she got this mask from what she said was the original mold which after speaking with Brian I realized that couldn't be but also that the production process was a bit more complicated than I thought. Anyway, the woman gave the mask to a gentleman who did some work for her about 15 years ago. He and his son with whom I corresponded kept it until they had it appraised and put it up on Ebay. I tried to find the lady and more about her but found only that she worked on a film with Stuart Freeborn long before Star Wars so she might no longer be alive.

Pretty much sums it up Tom. As far as detail is concerned, unless Thomas removes that paint, there is only so much you can see, with or without a microscope.

Thomas, any luck on those measurements? You can pm me if you like.

*Had to edit since Thomas just answered my question.

I apologize as well to you AJ and to the group if my tone was implied as less than civil.

I could be all wrong but there's still a lot more I could discuss about the mask that might be of interest....again I am still researching it even after five years....

I'm at work still and not sure if I will get to the measurements...maybe in the next few hours but quit busy with work.

Ok again the left tab on my mask had a bubble underneath it and it is physically broken off....that occurred after it was cast and is not part of the casting.

The chipped off parts in the screws also occurred after the cast was made. So my mask was cast with tabs nearly identical to those of the TM except actually the center BLOB on the center tab on mine has a bit more material strangely enough than the TM... I haven't gotten around to photographing and analyzing up close those differences...I hope that's clear.

Thomas,

I am seriously working on more details on the VP there is more than I previously knew. Where it comes from etc nothing has changed.

There is something very interesting that has come up as a direct result of somebody reading this thread and basically what they have shown me and told me will benefit the community and is in its own right very interesting.

vadermania I thought the story of the VP was pretty muchcommon knowledge? Possibly it has not been discussed on a public forum though I will PM you

Thomas all Vader helmets are put under great scrutiny on public forums. I don't doubt anything about your helmet just every time new things are shown people always have questions. It is generally curiousity nothing more not slamming. I also admire the fact you are constantly researching.

Cheers Chris

OK this is not something I wanted to reveal at this point because I just found it out this year and want to study it further...but anyway just for the heck of it...the chin vent on my mask is filled in just like the TM and VP. It has the same pattern of imperfections/depressions/scratches as the TM and VP...perhaps even a bit less defined because of the paint being a bit thicker there on the chin. Nevertheless, there are holes drilled into the chin vent on mine as everyone knows and they are real holes not part of the casting. Well I put the mask under a dissecting microscope at work (I have a photo I might show of that setup) and photographed through the ocular eyepiece with my digital camera under high magnification and found out that the resin inside the chin vent is different from the resin on the entire rest of the mask. I don't know what kind of resin it is but hell I might even show a photo of it here if someone knows a lot about resins...but I'd like to find out if it was a kind of filler material or what because I can't really explain why it would be different except that it was filled in. So this is sort of an example of the kind of research I've been doing with the mask.

I know it seems like we are beating a dead horse, but we know that the screenused faceplate had 2 full tusk tubes. You've stated that your faceplate has the same paint drips etc that the TM has. So your faceplate had to be cast from a finished faceplate since the paint drips are already there. The fact that the chin vent is filled in, with what may have been some sort of clay, based on the fingerprints and details etc, then that also is an indication of a finished faceplate "father". Otherwise the vent details would be different on your faceplate than on the TM/VP. The depth of the teeth on the TD are a lot shorter than on the TM and I'm assuming the VP. I'm not sure this has been asked, but what is the height difference on the TD vs the TM?

The height is hard to measure accurately but they are similar but because the necks are different and that's trimming height won't say much.

Yes my faceplate has the paint drips the TM has plus many more that were seem to have been cleared off the TM and VP. But there's a remnant of the paint drips on the VP that match the pattern of real paint on my mask.

Another thing I did under the microscope was take a razorblade through the main long paint line on the chin that we see on the TM casting and the Tantive IV casting. I cut through the paint line crosswise...I really hated doing that because I hate doing anything to change my mask. I was expecting to see a tiny shallow rise or bump where the paint line was which would show that the paint line was part of the casting. Instead I just saw thicker paint there....and the fiberglass was flat as far as I could tell...maybe I'll show that photo since it's not a detail photo.

Oh and I'll point out again that the tubes on the screen mask were altered during production...in length at the ends...this is from production photos. Also there's indication of bondo or repair on the tube ends on the screen mask that is lacking on mine...where the tubes meet. Now you could say oh mine was just cleaned up. But then the top tube in that same area has the vertical bumps that are seen on the screen mask...in the exact same area the screen mask has some bondo or filler material or something....so it's strange...

Congrats. How does it feel to be a member of the centennial club?


Answer to SithLord. It was not an indication that you were deceptive, neither intentional nor unintentional. Just responded to your general statement that angle can't affect the width of an object compared to another - which it can. It was simply to clarify that your response wasn't correct, nothing more.

I trust you when you say they were level.

Was that woman's name Elizabeth by any chance?

Tom,

I have a couple of comments about the list you have but you will have to take my word for it just now. As soon as I have the go aheas as I said I will show photographic evidence.

The VP had three identical tabs to the TM.
The VP had exactly the same neckline as the TM.

Cheers Chris

Ok thanks I was going to mention as well that if one was higher then proportionally everything would be bigger and as someone pointed out the U-shape part of the noses are fairly similar or at least close...yet the tubes are similar width but mouth wider....

anyhoooo......thanks......if I am able to illustrate it in another way I will but I have to respect TM as well and not show his mask....