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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 2:14 pm 
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Vadermonkey wrote:

But the pic CS is showing is clearly holed mesh and taken during production. (screen cap)


I also think it "could be" some holed mesh in the later scenes ...

Vadermonkey wrote:
Maybe two helmets were used in filming after all???


I don't think so ...

Vadermonkey wrote:
Or like the lenses were changed, they used holed mesh to hide the actor for some shots.


I think a lot lot of things in ANH went through "modifications" ...

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 5:02 pm 
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Vadermonkey wrote:
But the pic CS is showing is clearly holed mesh and taken during production. (screen cap)

I think it is too soon to conclude anything from one screen capture. We need more, from different angles to determine anything for real, as I have shown pretty clearly that mesh can be perceived differently depending on which angle it was photographed at.

Vadermonkey wrote:
There is also holed mesh in the publicity stills that Kermit did as well, although over time pieces were changed out etc.

Again, inconclusive, as the pictures are not large enough to determine any such small detail. It's a maybe, at the least, but nothing conclusive.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 7:12 pm 
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Ahhhh, but there are large pics available showing the holed mesh.

And that high def screen capture is clearly not diamond, but holed...how much more conclusive can you be?

So my opinion is mods during filming or 2 helmets on screen. Its the only two possible explanations.

And NHM, diamond can look holedd in the right lighting conditions but I this cap and some KE publicity shots are holed. It is a different helmet though in those shots.... that is why I think maybe 2 screen helmets as the Tantive scenes were filmed last and the publicity shots I'm talking about were after ANH. I'll post some examples later.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 8:17 pm 
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Well... prompted by this I checked the high-def pictures I had and I still see nothing that convinces me of holed mesh. Everything coincides with lighting shining off the raised areas on the mesh, making them look like white holes on a dark surface... but in none of the pictures are these "holes" the same size or the same shape. One picture has the pattern line up exactly with the Tantive scene mesh, except, there is no bright light shining directly on the mesh to have the raised areas go bright and the low areas go dark, so you can see that it is a mesh. Will do a comp later. I still see no proof that cannot be counterexplained by lighting conditions and angle.

Please explain to me the logic of holes into a dark interior that are white!?!!

Another thing: try to take your mesh and photograph it in a dark room with only a spot-light shining on it and hold it at different angles to simulate the angle in the screen captures. That could be an interesting test to prove or disprove what I'm saying.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:38 pm 
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Quote:
Everything coincides with lighting shining off the raised areas on the mesh, making them look like white holes on a dark surface...


The same is true more so on hole stamped mesh. That is why you get the white behind black effect.

I'll get some pics together....should be fun.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:05 am 
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Again, there is no holed mesh used on the film helmets.
I thought I'd put an end to the discussion with a definitive answer but I guess not.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 1:32 am 
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GINO wrote:
Again, there is no holed mesh used on the film helmets.
I thought I'd put an end to the discussion with a definitive answer but I guess not.


Care to share some photo's Gino?


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:21 am 
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No harm in a friendly discussion though....

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Again, there is no holed mesh used on the film helmets.
I thought I'd put an end to the discussion with a definitive answer but I guess not.


I guess the appropriate question for those of us who dont know is why is your answer the definitive answer. And I dont mean that rude or disrespectful, but it does come across a little wise-guy when you put it that way. :wink: Anyway, I've seen your Vaders....they speak for themselves!

So the very next shot shows diamond mesh. So clearly I stand corrected.

Image

As for the light, it still shows up white behind black in the holed stuff.

The stuff I like to use is the leaf guard diamond mesh found on Jaguars under the wiper arms. It also looks like holes when the light hits it. Very cool stuff.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:08 am 
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Great shot :)


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:13 am 
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Didn't mean for it to come across that way. If I didn't know for sure, I wouldn't have said it in a definitive way. I'm just trying to help but understand if people want to follow their own path to the answer.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:14 am 
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Also, if it helps, the white you are seeing is just the highlights on the diamond mesh.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:19 am 
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GINO wrote:
Also, if it helps, the white you are seeing is just the highlights on the diamond mesh.


Yes you can see the ridges quite clearly in the above photo.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:05 am 
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Yeah, thats why I posted that peticular pic.....

I just jumped into it without any prior research. :dope

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:42 am 
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Quote:
Image


Guys,

This is the same set of scenes my screen-cap came from. I think it's a stretch to say that there is absolutely no way this an array of circular holes. You would have to take into account the direction of the light. Also if the light is entering through the lenses and is illuminating Prowse's face, then the light coming through the small triangle could very well be escaping through the holes of the sheet metal. Also, this could be thin sheet metal too.

Given the angle of photography, I think that keeping the audience of catching a glimpse of Prowse's skin through the triangular vent would have been important. It's easier to cover this up with a sheet with sparse holes than a wire mesh.

I agree with you GINO that the following is a mesh:

Image

... but not the TIE fighter scene. VaderMonkey, let's look at your screen capture more closely. These circular patterns do not strike me as reflections in a mesh.

Image

I'm not saying it's impossible this is mesh. I just personally find it a stretch to say with all certainty that it is.

Screen caps courtesy of Darth Kahnt.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:42 am 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
I'm not saying it's impossible this is mesh. I just personally find it a stretch to say with all certainty that it is.

When it has been established that Vader had a mesh in that chin vent in other scenes, why assume it is something else in other scenes.

I'm not saying anything definitive, as it is well known that they did make changes during filming to try to hide Prowse's face and mouth from being seen through there, but so far the accounts have only described additional smaller holed mesh behind the first and black cloth.

If it was a holed piece of metal and not mesh, then the holes would be consistent in shape and position, but they are not. The white parts correspond exactly with light shining on the raised parts of diamond mesh.

I'll try to get that comparison made... though... just woke up - I know... pretty late - so am still a bit tired for tedious work! :lol

And discussions... even though the answer may have been given... is good for the soul! :thumbsup

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