The point is that you are bashing my thread and I´ve no idea why.So what do you want?I´ve never told you that I want selling casts of my mask or something like that.I only said that I wanna make a copy for me that I have the lines in the sculpt.
Please hunt on ebay that is full of 1:1 recasts of everything and don´t bash the work of people like me who spends a lot of time and money to rebuild a bad propsource to a better one.

And about the build:

Please build your own reveal with a tape over the nose!And please lets see how it looks!

There was no mind to clue tape over the nose because the complete area is gunmetal.So what the hell they did with the tape?

Nice attention to detail and dedication so far on this project. Thanks for sharing.

And no offense intended when someone points out a concern related to molding someone else's helmet or mask. Within the replica prop and prop collecting community there is a code of honor if you will, where the unique sources of castings are respected so that copying someone else's casting for the sake of profit is looked down upon as dishonorable. In this case it is not for profit, but still it is copying someone's casting without permission. There is also the question of what gives someone dibs on a particular helmet.



(speaking to Carsten) Portumac likely used a DP Deluxe for the base. Modifying a Portumac is understandable for a one-off project, but I also agree that making a copy of one, even for personal use, would be construed as recasting, and he should ideally be asking Portumac whether he can make a copy, even if it is just for a one-off project. It would have even be good if he asked Portumac whether he could make a reveal out of one of his helmets. Although, again, it also depends whether Portumac just used a DP Deluxe as a base and modified it slightly? How different would the outcome be given the extent of modifications for this reveal if he had started with a DP Deluxe? One could question whether Portumac started out with a unique source (ie: a licensed helmet).

Aye, one of the dilemma's of producing a new mask or helmet.....especially for a reveal.

Apologies for the digression for what admittedly would seem like politics, but it is an unfortunate part of the hobby that people occasionally copy other people's work or castings, and if we don't say anything to newer members, then those that follow would think they have carte blanch to do the same with impunity. For example, recasting is a basis for being banned from the Replica Props Forum, so it is taken quite seriously within the collecting community.

@SithLord:Thanks for the great words about my project.

The question about my mask is:What is still from portumac on my mask?THAT is the question!And I can say nothing.I only used his helmet as the base because I´ve seen that he used a DP DLX as the base I don´t want to buy a DP DLX recast again and waste my money with the portumac.


I rebuild the complete nose...that was work of months to mold it like it is!I removed all this wrong components that he added to the DP DLX base.And I restored the DP cast that it is a sharp and accurate source now.

I made new:

-the crown(Disc and shape under the disc)
-the eyes and eyebrows(that he casted bad)
-the complete nose(was so thin and wrong shape of the grooves)
-I constructed complete new sidetubes and railsystem for my mask.That was also a lot of work because everything must be perfect in line.
-I removed portumacs(or DP)molded edge of the lower part and molded it new to look more like the original
-I added the lines over the nose and under the crown
-Molded the ramps on the inside sides of the lower jaw-railgrooves
-and I rebuild the back of the mask,too because portumac made it wrong.

More work as you build a complete new maskmold.

The build is not finished also...and now is comming the guy from denmark and said I´m a recaster because I used the DP DLX components from a very bad cast as the base of my mask.I´m really angry about guys like him."Recastinghunters"...the recasters on ebay are giving a shit on their opinion and are making the big money with the work of other artists..so the "hunters" are bashing fairplay people like me because I used a old portymask for my project and spend a lot of work in it to make it accurate.I bet if I had said that I used an old DP recast for the start nobody has seen that it was a portumac before.
But now the recasterhunters are on the way...what a hobby!

I hate recasters,too...but if someone makes a prop a lot more accurate and spends a lot of time and money in the projekt he is not a recaster when he makes a mold of his work.The point is everytime...how different is the finished work from the source.


Darth Ugly had the same discussion on the RPF some days ago...with a guy who said that he used his work for the base of his casted helmets.
And from what I know Ugly used also a very bad old source for his helmets and spend a lot of work in it to make his great molds.So I think I can do the same.And he is selling his helmets on the RPF.So I would say he isn´t a recaster!

Here are some other pics from the work and cutted parts...:

portumacs wrong cutted sidetubes that I removed:



And my correct new tunes without primer on it...that I really a hard work to do that.




And here the new update...the complete reworked back of the mask:

portumacs back:



My back after sanding,molding and primer...:

I don't think it's needed to derail the thread into a recasting debate.
I for myself see no probelm in the fact if someone is making a copy of his own modified work , as a back up copy.
I self did it on some parts while my reveal mask build.
Some of the parts are so hard to get, that if you destroy that part while building it's gone.
So to make back up parts just for one self, shouldn't not be the big problem.

But to come back to the mask.
NHM is correct with the fact the the mask got dropped down, but i just know about a damage on the neckseal and some broken parts there.
I not know about some damage on the upper mask itself.
But i may could ask a guy who know's it.

Go on with your build at the end you do it for your favor, not for otheres so build it as you think its correct.

I was holding off posting this reply, but seeing as it has now been undeniably stated on the RPF that there are plans to mold and sell casts of this work I will put up the reply I wrote back when this was discussed and consider this a warning:

Hi Kroenan77,

Very nice build. I noticed that your eye brows are very sharp, which I know is the main way people get that ROTJ look, but the real mask has a lower edge to the eyebrow face, do you
plan to add this? Or are you shooting for your own look. It's your mask, but just in case you were going for full screen accurate, I felt I should mention it.

John

I think only one thing is undeniably..that I will never sell a mask to Denmark!Sorry to all other Danish!
I had no copy of a DP DLX and no money to buy one.Spend all my money in the portumac kit.I bought only the not accurate mask from portumac and spend a lot of time and money in it to make a accurate ROTJ mask.And a lot of people would be happy to own a great ROTJ mask...so my idea was to make some masks(when possible).
Next time when I build something I will Only post pics of the finished piece.Honestly is the wrong way,because people like you are always on the hunt to make trouble where is no trouble need.If you would see the finish mask and I would told you that its from my own DP DLX mold you would say that its ok.But now where you know that the base was a portumacrecast of a DP DLX(and he added a lot of wrong details on this)...you say RECAST!I reworked the complete stump under the crown,too.The mask has nothing from portumac,now.And you want that I ask portumac for a permission for a work that he has not done?That must be a joke.

And the funniest is,that I have done nothing.Please wait...if I will sell only one cast(or make one for myself) you can bann me...and you can also go to the RPF-Staff and say what you´ve seen.And its possible that they will also bann me,because you are longer member there and a famous "recasterhunter".
And after that you can feel better!
And nobody will become a mask...all can say thanks to you!

The "recasterrules" are to protect the work of people who spend a lot of time and skills into a mold.Its to protect the unique look that somebody has created.And that is a good thing.But with your attitude every not licensed Vaderhelmetbuilder must ask Brian Muir and/or Disney/Fox first because he used recasted parts of the Originalmold.Every helmet that used a Originalsculpt or parts of it is a recast.Only the work after this cast is from the new propcreator.And that is exactly what I did...I used the Originalareas of the DP DLX for my build...what was still there.And I payed a lot of money to portumac for this few useful parts.And that is it what makes me so angry about you...I spend a lot of time in the work to create my own look of the mask and now you say that I´m a recaster if I make a copy of my own work.Nobody on the RPF said something negative about my posts with the possible moldmaking...only YOU!


So I ask me:What of portumacs unique details do you want to protect on my mask?

What is with my sculpted details(nose,crown,sidetubes,flange..)..I have the rights on them.If my mask would be a company on the bourse I would have the most stocks...and the man with the most stocks can do what he wants with the company!

Ok..you want to protect the DP DLX cast itself?...but did portumac casted it from his own DP DLX?Do you have a proof for that?Or did he recasted the DP DLX parts from another person/mold?Did he became a permission for that?If not..who is this person?Do you know him/her?Must I ask this person or still portumac?
What is if portumac says that it was his DP DLX but he cannot proof that?And if nobody can be found as the originalowner of the DP DLX?So nobody can use the parts from portumac that he paid for?That is all really confusing!

Darth Ugly had the same discussion,too?What a shame after all his hard work from a joke of a cast that he used for the start.


@Darth Obsession:The eyebrows will become an update,too!

Yes, and I'll fight just as hard if anyone tries to recast something you've created in the future, even though you are acting like a self-serving jack-ass right now. If you have money to buy molding and casting materials, don't give me that crap that you cannot afford a Don Post helmet. You are making these choices, not me and I don't really give a shit how they do things over on The RPF. They do things their way and we do things our way. If you want to go ahead and recast, I can't stop you, but you will not be a member of this board. I've been scammed loads during my time in the hobby and I've reworked and improves several pieces to the point where very little of the original piece is left, but you do not see me recasting that or calling it my own - all I say about them is that it is my rework done to that person's piece. That's the difference between you and me. We all decide on our own which paths we take with their pitfalls and consequences. And you are crossing the line if you go through with this, so you might as well take it like a man, or actually do the right thing instead of acting like a spoiled brat.

I would say....chill a little bit.I have not affronted you as a person.But I think its good that we can speak about the problem.
The problem with most of the recasthunters is,that they are loosing the complete feeling for proportionality over the years.They are seeing recasts all the day and are making problems where no problems are.To recast a DP DLX is a unique propwork for you,right?Ok,you can say that the guy who recasted this helmet has bought the helmet and has the rights to sell the casts.Strictly speaking is it a recast of a licensed prop and he has no rights to sell this.But ok that is ok for you.Right?
But here is the big mistake in the recasterhunterstory..every owner of a original DP DLX could be very angry about this recasts because he bought a very limited licensed prop.And now is coming somebody who bought ONE helmet and is selling hundreds of copys of this unique piece.All what he did is a 1:1 mold.No unique propwork to make the helmet better or more accurate.Ok..a good mold is not easy,too...but at the end its only a recast.

So..and now comes my situation:If portumac really used his own helmetcast for his revealmask he has the rights on the DP DLX parts in your world view.
Ok..but I payed for this.And I removed all what he did on the mask..so the question is for what did I payed?I think I have payed enough for the very few parts of his DP DLX areas that where original.I molded a complete new nose and was very proud about the result..and that was why I was showing that it was a portumac mask before.And after all the work and money that I spend in this project,you are coming out and say that I´m a recaster why I use some DP DLX areas that I payed for.I think that is disrespectful and out of comparativeness.

I never had plans to mold my mask as I started.I bought the kit from portumac years ago and he said the mask is very movieaccurate.But later I collected over 1000 pics and videos of the originalprop and had contacts to some real reveal-experts about this prop,that I saw so many mistakes on my mask.So I was very angry.. my first choice after that was to become a ketzermask copy.But because it was impossible to become a good copy and the ketzermask has some mistakes,too I started with what I had..the portumac mask.I spent months to build the correct bulky nose of the Originalprop.On every photo from another angle you can see a new mistake and needs to correct it.Same with the crown.And the tubes on the sides of the lower jaw..very difficult to build.
And after some requests from other fans on the boards and from my private friends I was thinking about a run.So this project was a project over the months/Years..and its still not finished.I opened this thread with collected pics from over a year or longer...so it could be that people are thinking that I built the mask in some days!But that is not the real timeframe.

And about my money and the mold:For me is a mold a lot of money.You know how much silicon costs for a big mask like this?And it can be,that the first attempt is failing.And then I must use the same amount of silicon again.That can be very expensive.
And to buy a DP DLX..make a mold from this(I would not destroy it to make a reveal)..and make a Reveal from one of the casts..and then make a mold of the finished mask...that is too much for me.And total out of cost effectiveness.So the only way WOULD be to make a mold of my work...sadly without a ROTJ-dome.

I am not bashing your work. Not in the slightest. I think it is great that you have the accuracy bug and puts all that drive into perfecting an imperfect cast that you bought. The inaccuracies of the claims the seller made, your experience with the seller or the product still doesn't take away from the fact that you are working on a Portumac helmet and that's where the problem arises when you consider molding and casting it. And yes, I know how much molding and casting materials cost - which was why I said you are not correct when you say you cannot afford a Don Post DLX.

And my personal recasting ethic is different than the one this forum goes with and the one the hobby at large goes with. For me licensed pieces - past and present are a big no no. But the hobby at large has accepted past licensed props to be fair game and since I'm an admin of a forum that accepts that, then I have to work under those guidelines. But trust me, my own stance is much more strict, as recasting past licenses means new licenses may not be interested in picking up the rights and do more. Frankly, the Don Post license was taken over by Rubies, but their product is still different from the Don Post product. So technically, it's not a past license. Only the DP DLX is a past product.

What I'm saying is this: it doesn't matter to me or the other admin whether you were scammed, told tall tales regarding the product or whether you feel cheated. It doesn't matter how accurate the piece is. It doesn't matter how much work you put into it to make it more accurate to your tastes. All that doesn't matter in this situation. All that matters is that it is someone else's product you are using as a base and you have no permissions from that person to use his product to mold and make copies, regardless of how much you've reworked it.

For a personal copy he may actually be okay with you doing what you intend to do. You don't know because you haven't asked. He may however have a problem with you making casts for others. And no, he has no rights to the Don Post products - he has rights to his own casts off of that. Anyone can mold and cast the Don Post, as that is accepted within the hobby at large by the majority. But no one has any rights to recast someone's copy of a Don Post helmet. See what I'm saying there?

Your work is commendable and the fact you strive to perfect an imperfect piece is cool. So many others are doing exactly that kind of work on props they've obtained - trying to make things more accurate, but they don't mold and cast the finished piece or call it their own. The work they did is their own, but it is still someone else's product they perfected. If they all thought like you do, then we would be flooded with recasts and there would be no stopping it and people who create the original piece will stop making more and stop making new stuff, because why bother if they are just going to get their interest in the hobby killed by people basically stealing from them. Even allowing recasting of inferior product that has been improved and perfected will affect the good quality and special items producers as well, as they will fear the lack of protection within the hobby and ultimately decide not to bother making new stuff available.

Understand what I'm saying? I have a job to do and I will not be accused of being inconsistent: because, if I allow one recast, then how can I even remotely think I can stop another? I haven't lost anything in that regard. I fight anyone who recasts to protect those who are being recast. If you've ever experienced the sensation you feel when you see someone else recast your product, you wouldn't try to justify recasting at all. We all make choices in this hobby, but we should be prepared to live with the consequences of those choices. I can't stop you. I can only hope to try to persuade you to do the right thing. But I have made this forum's stance clear, so it's all up to you now what you decide to do.

That it is "ok" to recast the DP DLX shows how vague this all is.But ok,I´m not making the rules.And I have no idea who.
For me its a personal valuation...I hate brazen recasters,too..who are making 1:1 copys from other builders work and sell them on ebay.Most of this has also a bad quality.But if somebody reworked a piece complete and creates a new style prop... then its his own work in my eyes.And then he has the rights on this piece.And I think that must be decided from the experts from case to case.If I would not know how much work I spent in this project,I would never thinking about to mold it.But ok..I know the rules now..and this rules are carved in stone..so I must see what I will do when the mask is finished.
To get banned here would be very sad for me...but on the other site I think this recaster politics are very vague and unfair.And they are bad for the community.But that is only my personal opinion.

Nice to see that you guys had calm down a bit.
But i would prefer to see some more progress on your mask instead of reading another recast discussion.

Yes,sorry...I did not worked in the last weeks on the reveal.But my motivation is a little bit down about this prop.

Keep going , chin up mate.
Where is the problem? I doubt it's cause of the recasting debate.
So let's see if we can help you, as till now you have made a great job so far.

Thanks Stefan!

Yes,the recaster debate was very stressful...and that with my bad english!

I was also waiting on the new Propbook from Brandon Arlinger,which is outstanding...but nothing really new about the Revealhelmet for me.