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 Post subject: Re: Esb helmet
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 175
I would strip it back....then lets see what's what!


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 Post subject: Re: Esb helmet
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:43 pm
Posts: 60
Location: U.K.
If you use a stripper make sure you have some water close by, there have been a few who have fallen fowl of stripper damaging the masks, by eating away at the fiberglass.


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 Post subject: Re: Esb helmet
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:09 pm 
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Location: Denmark
It's a copy of a plastic DP CA. There really isn't much detail to lose that wasn't gone already.

I was one of those who damaged a helmet by trying to strip badly applied paint. A high end, expensive helmet. Took ages to get it back into shape, but by doing that I lost a lot of original surface detail. THAT was a big loss. The shape was intact and still far better than most helmets, but much of the detail was gone - lost in my stupidity. It has a new good home now and will be transformed into a new beauty, I'm sure.

There is no such kind of detail work on a DP CA or a copy of one, so sanding is the safer bet, imo. But don't worry, I know where you are coming from. I felt the exact same way about my SPFX helmet, when I had to strip that one... even the slightest damage to the gelcoat layer was a disaster and sanding was NOT an option until I got the new helmet and realizing that I was fretting over nothing.

Having stripped a few helmets I can tell you that stripping the paint off this kind of shape is a NIGHTMARE, as you want the stripper to sit on there for a moment and not wash off down the sides... and if you use the gel-like stuff that stays in place and which is also harsher you'll risk ruining the gelcoat.

Since this is not a high end helmet with a lot of surface detail matched to the originals, it will take less time to sand it than to try to strip it.


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 Post subject: Re: Esb helmet
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:37 am
Posts: 44
Ok. Aside from the paint removal, which I will sort out over the next week. The first thing I want to do is sort out the dome position. I know that the front should be roughly inline with the brows but I am unsure of the back. Can someone please post a picture of a side view of where I should be aiming for. I have look for a good esb screen cap from the side and just can't find a good one.
This is the position it sits in on my mannequin. Admitidly the mask could probably do with tilting up a bit.

Image



Too Much Garlic wrote:
It's a copy of a plastic DP CA. There really isn't much detail to lose that wasn't gone already.

I was one of those who damaged a helmet by trying to strip badly applied paint. A high end, expensive helmet. Took ages to get it back into shape, but by doing that I lost a lot of original surface detail. THAT was a big loss. The shape was intact and still far better than most helmets, but much of the detail was gone - lost in my stupidity. It has a new good home now and will be transformed into a new beauty, I'm sure.

There is no such kind of detail work on a DP CA or a copy of one, so sanding is the safer bet, imo. But don't worry, I know where you are coming from. I felt the exact same way about my SPFX helmet, when I had to strip that one... even the slightest damage to the gelcoat layer was a disaster and sanding was NOT an option until I got the new helmet and realizing that I was fretting over nothing.

Having stripped a few helmets I can tell you that stripping the paint off this kind of shape is a NIGHTMARE, as you want the stripper to sit on there for a moment and not wash off down the sides... and if you use the gel-like stuff that stays in place and which is also harsher you'll risk ruining the gelcoat.

Since this is not a high end helmet with a lot of surface detail matched to the originals, it will take less time to sand it than to try to strip it.

I might start sanding it tomorrow and see how I get on.
What is a good grit to start on and what should I work down to?
Wet sand or dry sand? Machine or hand sand? Aaaaarrrrggggghhhh!!!! so Many questions! Lol!!
I will be putting details and sharpening edges when the initial sand and prime is done.


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 Post subject: Re: Esb helmet
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:27 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:58 am
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Location: Denmark
Here's a profile picture of the ESB Vader:

Image

Regarding sanding. I usually work from 100 grit upward. Don't use power tools.


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 Post subject: Re: Esb helmet
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:37 am
Posts: 44
Status update:
The paint is coming off really easy. I have removed (very roughly) half and all I have used is a plastic scraper. I haven't used any stripper or sandpaper. The paint really is coming off that easy.
Ok I have started to remove the paint and I have found the problems with the paint to be 3fold.
1: There is NO primer on it.
2: The gunmetal paint has been painted over the entire mask face.
3: the black paint apperars to be handpainted black gloss directly onto the gunmetal paint.

I can't help wondering if the dome was not originally from this mask as the paintjob on that is superb.
I know the mesh still needs to be removed but it has been stuck in with resin so will need to be cut out.

I will post mote pics when it is completely free of paint and has had a fine wet sand. Then we can see what will need sharpening up etc.....


Image

Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Esb helmet
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:44 pm 
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It seems the paint was already in a state that a stripping agent would have rendered it. Good that it's easily removed. To remove any left-over gonk from the face mask you should probably wash it afterward with dish-washing soap or rub it with a soft cloth dipped in household alcohol (ethanol).


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 Post subject: Re: Esb helmet
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:37 am
Posts: 44
Thought I would post some updated pics.
I have got 99% of the paint off and am now in the process of wet and dry sanding it down.
So at least you can get a good idear of what it's like.
Aside from the inacuracys the actual cast is really good with no spots that will need filling.
The tape on the mount is where I intend to grind it down to.
So any idears what I can do to make it a bit more accurate (without being really anal;)).
Image

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Esb helmet
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 175
good work, commander!


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 Post subject: Re: Esb helmet
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:22 am
Posts: 554
Location: Hampton Wick UK
I used the Nitro mors in small doses and applied it to small areas with an old tooth brush and just brushed it in small circular motion. I didn't leave it on for long then just washed it off with water. Then re applied if necessary then moved onto the next bit. It worked like a treat as you can see from my thread. You cannot really go wrong as long as you watch what you are doing and go easy. You get a far superior result than sanding and you don't run the risk of changing the shape from over sanding.


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 Post subject: Re: Esb helmet
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:22 am
Posts: 554
Location: Hampton Wick UK
Ha Ha

Just seen page 2!

You've done a great job.... I can't wait to see more!


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 Post subject: Re: Esb helmet
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:34 pm 
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Don't take too much off the mount too soon. Go slow, as it is easier to remove than it is to add.

Anyway, from what I can see, basically only the neck needs the most work. The rest is pretty decent for what it is. What stands out on the rest are the three notches on the nose ridge.


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 Post subject: Re: Esb helmet
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:37 am
Posts: 44
Too Much Garlic wrote:
Don't take too much off the mount too soon. Go slow, as it is easier to remove than it is to add.

Anyway, from what I can see, basically only the neck needs the most work. The rest is pretty decent for what it is. What stands out on the rest are the three notches on the nose ridge.


What would be the best way to approach the neck area? Because I don't really know where to start.
As for the rest, I was thinking of sharpening up the cheeks a little bit and possibly deepening the grooves (don't know the correct term for them) under his eyes a tiny bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Esb helmet
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:34 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:43 pm
Posts: 60
Location: U.K.
I don't think sharpening the cheeks is very ESB, its supposed to be softer then ANH. For the neck, you need to extend it, you'll have to add material to the bottom and then shape and sand. You might have to sand the neck abit at the front it looks a little curled up, the other point also might be some flaring at the sides of the mask, but I'm not sure if thats really a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Esb helmet
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:37 am
Posts: 44
Ok I think I have the dome position the best I can get it.
After comparing it to the vader shot below I can see how different mine is to a screen used dome. However I am not too bothered about that. So does this position look ok before I fix it on place??
Allso I learned a very valuable lesson last night.
IF USING A NEW BATCH OF RESIN MAKE SURE THEY HAVENT CHANGED THE CATALYST!!!
I though I was going to set fire to my mixing cup!! They changed the catalyst to a 1% mix , not 10%!! whoops!!!

Image

Image

Image


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