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 Post subject: Re: GH versus the SPFX Vader armor. No flaming plz.
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:29 am 
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NoHumorMan wrote:
http://thepropden.aokforums.com/anh-vader-cast-from-elstreeprops-on-ebay-dot-dot-dot-vt736.html - there are some pictures on page 4.

I think it'll be hard to find an Elstree set, but you may get lucky. You may be able to heat mod the GH armor into a better shape - Mac has worked with GH pieces before, maybe he can assist you in doing the mods.


Actually, there's nothing I can do to make a GH like the shape of the SPFX because it's already in a fully cured state. The positive side is that it's strong, but the downside is that it's not manipulable so unless you do a series of calculated cuts, cutting wedges out and then rejoining the pieces, you've not a lot of options - and even though I've done very tough projects, this is at least five levels above "loco" and I wouldn't touch it.

However, I could probably get an armor project going that will have a fair degree of accuracy, so if you can wait, you don't have to buy a recast and support a recaster who has taken a lot of people's money and has not shipped product. If having less space in the rear and a smaller neck gap is the issue, I can probably accommodate that.

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 Post subject: Re: GH versus the SPFX Vader armor. No flaming plz.
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 5:57 am 
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Mac, I would be very interested in a set of armor as you described.

I wish that I had taken some photos, but I have just modded a set of GT armor for a Garrison Buddy that closley resembled the GH armor, and ended up looking more like the SPFX as far as overall shape. It takes alot of heat from a heat gun. Almost to the point that you cannot hold onto the pieces even with gloves. But it can be done.

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 Post subject: Re: GH versus the SPFX Vader armor. No flaming plz.
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 9:37 am 
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I used to own the GH master armor set (one generation up from all the GH armor copies and two generations up from the SPFX armor). I also had a regular GH armor set which was comparable, with sharpness and quality unmatched IMHO and very sturdy for trooping.

Here's a comparison I did a few moons ago....below is the GH master armor set. And yes, they would be nearly the same scale, although my guess is given the SPFX is two generations down that it would be even smaller than I've shown here since I've scaled the center sections to be the same.

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 Post subject: Re: GH versus the SPFX Vader armor. No flaming plz.
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 9:53 am 
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Vadermonkey wrote:
Go find yourself an Elstree set and forget them all. :thumbsup


I second that! :thumbsup :thumbsup


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 Post subject: Re: GH versus the SPFX Vader armor. No flaming plz.
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 9:57 am 
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GH armor can be manipulated back into an accurate shape with the use of the kind of parts washers used in auto shops....but whatever you do dont start cutting it!

Most places will let you use the machine or if you know someone that has access....heat for ten seconds hold in place then cool under cold water. Repeating three times will do the trick.

Now ask me how I know. :thumbsup


(Elstree, Elstree, Elstree, Elstree)

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 Post subject: Re: GH versus the SPFX Vader armor. No flaming plz.
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 10:25 am 
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Well ANH armor isn't shaped like the Elstree armor is in the rear.

Look at the angle of the shoulders. If it was shaped like the Elstree it wouldn't have those angles.

Image

Even ESB armor has a similar shape...

Image

The rear overhangs are not perfectly square in the rear...they do have an angle to them which I think the GH approximates to some extent.

Here you see in side view of the original ANH costume some of what I am referring to. If the armor overhangs were perfectly square the back of Kermit would not look this way....

Image

Perhaps Brian could comment on the way the armor was originally shaped and sculpted.

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 Post subject: Re: GH versus the SPFX Vader armor. No flaming plz.
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 2:03 pm 
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Vadermonkey wrote:
GH armor can be manipulated back into an accurate shape with the use of the kind of parts washers used in auto shops....but whatever you do dont start cutting it!

Most places will let you use the machine or if you know someone that has access....heat for ten seconds hold in place then cool under cold water. Repeating three times will do the trick.

Now ask me how I know. :thumbsup


(Elstree, Elstree, Elstree, Elstree)



Really? I tried heat modding the GH ANH mask I have (the face transplant project) and it totally resisted heat modification, and we're talking long exposure to high temperatures. It's possible my mask had a different make/brand of material.

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 Post subject: Re: GH versus the SPFX Vader armor. No flaming plz.
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 5:01 pm 
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Thomas...the problem I have with GH stuff is so spread out in the rear that it doesnt sit right on the mannequin/person if your going DP dimentions. One could stuff a bunch of foam in the rear to bring it against the neck but its too much and looks funny in the rear and shoulders.

That being said I'm not currently using any vendor brand as there are problems with all of them but Elstree is the best for fit and it is pretty much drama free in my view.

Mac, the thing about the washer is that it blasts 3-400 degree water on the whole piece instantly and evenly whereas an oven or heat gun can't do that and is better for small mods. The real downside is you can kiss your paintjob goodbye and if the piece has any air bubbles they will blister out. Steve makes super solid stuff though so that is not a problem.

Its just another option I would recommend exploring if one wished to try shaping armor before anything heavy duty like cutting etc.

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 Post subject: Re: GH versus the SPFX Vader armor. No flaming plz.
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 5:01 am 
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Vadermonkey wrote:
Thomas...the problem I have with GH stuff is so spread out in the rear that it doesnt sit right on the mannequin/person if your going DP dimentions. One could stuff a bunch of foam in the rear to bring it against the neck but its too much and looks funny in the rear and shoulders.


If you look at it in front view on the side edges how they curve around, there doesn't look like there is any problem with the curvature of the armor, at least from the front. Also, when I had the master armor I found the TD mask to fit it like a glove. If it was so spread out in the rear that wouldn't work...there would be deviation at least at the midway point front-to-rear in terms of the fit and there wasn't. Here's an illustration what I mean...

Image

I've worn GH armor and it fits fine if you pad the chest sufficiently. It is supposed to tilt upwards in the front, not down.

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 Post subject: Re: GH versus the SPFX Vader armor. No flaming plz.
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 1:33 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
It is supposed to tilt upwards in the front, not down.


Not on the original it's not. There is a slight vertical curve to the original armor. It fit the contours of Prowse's chest and upper shoulder area like a glove. It's not suppose to tilt upwards. The problem is that many people believe that the Kermit Eller promo look is the Darth Vader look, that's wrong. Eller may have had the height, but he lacked the body size, the muscularity. It's easy to see this in the pants, where they are baggy on him and oversized. The same for the armor and the spacing of the parts.

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 Post subject: Re: GH versus the SPFX Vader armor. No flaming plz.
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:05 pm 
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You mean the front face of the armor curves vertically? I don't think so but maybe we can show more side views of screen armor so I know what you mean. But what I mean is that since that front face is flat, and Dave Prowse had a deep chest, it would sit with a tilt so that the front is up and the rear sits flush with the shoulder blades. That is what happens if you have a deep chest as Dave did.

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 Post subject: Re: GH versus the SPFX Vader armor. No flaming plz.
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:11 pm 
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Quote:
I've worn GH armor and it fits fine if you pad the chest sufficiently. It is supposed to tilt upwards in the front, not down.


If I was building a "SL wearing the suit with a shitload of foam padding in the chest" display, that would be fine but I am going for screen accuracy my friend. :blah

I have a 47" chest and have to add 2-2 1/2" of foam in the rear to get it to not flop around and get the neckline resting where it should be. If you take vinyl tape and pull it in a few inches and then put it on its a completely different game....not totally accurate mind you but much better. I was also told the castings were pulled out a couple of inches in the 'green' state.

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 Post subject: Re: GH versus the SPFX Vader armor. No flaming plz.
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 4:23 pm 
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This following image is not of the GH ANH. Rather, it's of this ultra large armor that was claimed once to be "Prowse-sized" by the vendor. Various fans bought them and found fitting problems from the get-go. It was suggested to them to tilt the front up. Then when this created an inaccurate side profile, the fans were faulted for not having Prowse's build. In truth, the armor seen here was LARGER than the screen-used armor such that it would have been probably too large for Prowse himself!

Image

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 Post subject: Re: GH versus the SPFX Vader armor. No flaming plz.
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 5:28 pm 
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These pics illustrate the curve I'm talking about. If you think about when Brian Muir sculpted the armor over the bust of Prowse, there were obvious curves and contours in the bust. It's not one straight plane. You can see in some of these pics that there is a slight protrusion near the center of the armor and it curves slightly inward as it goes to the bottom. The illustration of the armor tilted upward is inaccurate. If you see pics of the original armor, it also has slight inward bends at the front corners of the armor, amongst other things. The far right bottom pic is of the ESB armor as a comparison. Although essentially the same armor, there are slight differences between the two.

Image

* I realize this is a thread between the GH vs the SPFX and not a thread about the original, so I'm done here. :cool:

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 Post subject: Re: GH versus the SPFX Vader armor. No flaming plz.
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 6:49 pm 
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Good post, Karo.

Let me contribute one final pic on the subject.

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