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 Post subject: Re: Putting the white in Stormtrooper...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:13 am
Posts: 10
Is it possible the armor was acrylic capped? Hence the milky white appearance? Why is it hard for armor makers to achieve that? The quality of ABS that was available then? I'm seriously considering painting my AP armor as well, just to get that look, but I don't want it inaccurate looking either or lessen the detail of the pull any further.


Last edited by Bezerkus on Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Putting the white in Stormtrooper...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:07 pm
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Location: Norwich UK
I was seriously thinking of painting my AP armour before i sold it as it was bugging me about the grayness of the plastic too. How hard can it be to get bright white gloss plastic?


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 Post subject: Re: Putting the white in Stormtrooper...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:29 pm
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Location: UK
The AP plastic is not acrylic capped and is greyish like the regular ABS I have used. The acrylic capped ABS is bright white the same as AA/SDS armour. If you want to spray your armour to look old, Antique White from PlatiKote would be a good choice I think.

Doug, I hear what your saying but the photos tell me otherwise.

Jez, I can accept what you say about the HDPE helmets, but not about the Hero helmets or armour. I'm not saying your wrong or right, but you have never handled either as far as I am aware so again, just theory. If you can show me hard evidence of what you are sying then that would be great. I only want to find out for sure one way or the other, it doesn't really matter if they were painted or not, as long as I know for certain :cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Putting the white in Stormtrooper...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:42 pm
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If the Hero helmets were painted why is there not one photo showing one with paint missing? I have yet to see a screen cap or picture of the archive helmet with any paint missing...

Joe


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 Post subject: Re: Putting the white in Stormtrooper...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:21 am
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Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
JoeR wrote:
If the Hero helmets were painted why is there not one photo showing one with paint missing? I have yet to see a screen cap or picture of the archive helmet with any paint missing...

Joe


I was under the impression that the Hero helmets were unpainted ABS--only the stunt helmets were painted white. The hero helmet they displayed at C4 certainly didn't seem to be painted.


Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Putting the white in Stormtrooper...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:38 pm 
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Also... isn't it the stunt armor we are discussing whether was painted or not?

Though... the piles of armor in the pictures with the stacked helmets outside Shepperton Std looks pretty white to me, even though they are B/W pictures.


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 Post subject: Re: Putting the white in Stormtrooper...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:50 pm 
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troopermaster wrote:
If you want to spray your armour to look old...

Nope don't want it to look old :ac6 just accurate.

troopermaster wrote:
The AP plastic is not acrylic capped and is greyish like the regular ABS I have used. The acrylic capped ABS is bright white the same as AA/SDS armour.


Sorry, was meaning the originals not AP. Yep, seen that as having owned an SDS and AP. I didn't know you were doing capped ABS, fantastic, definitely think that looks the best.
Just wondering if the armor in ANH was acrylic capped too as they seem to differ slightly even from the hero helmets in certain shots, and have that amazing gloss to it. Maybe just a better polishing job.

Image
Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Putting the white in Stormtrooper...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:03 pm
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Location: UK
troopermaster wrote:
Doug, I hear what your saying but the photos tell me otherwise.

Jez, I can accept what you say about the HDPE helmets, but not about the Hero helmets or armour. I'm not saying your wrong or right, but you have never handled either as far as I am aware so again, just theory. If you can show me hard evidence of what you are sying then that would be great. I only want to find out for sure one way or the other, it doesn't really matter if they were painted or not, as long as I know for certain :cheers


Paul - sometimes its about the balance of probability.

In the case of the Hero helmet - we know that 6 were made by AA in 76 and the only one we have access to in the LFL archive (which can be matched against a known on-screen helmet as well as the promo pics) WAS 100% white ABS - not painted. Not only has it been photographed extensively but also having worked with MR on their Hero helmet, this was used as the basis so we can be 100% sure of that.

Now its possible I suppose that some of the other Hero helmet's were painted white. However that goes against invoices raised by SDS to LFL in '76, notes in John Mollo's artbook made at the time (including the budgets), as well as some additional on-set photos from production.

IN fact the weight of probability points so much to them being plain ABS that I do not think you will find ANY indication that any Hero helmets were painted

As far as the armour its a similar story. Again the sets in the LFL archives do ot appear tohave been painted. This includes Hamills set with its tell-tale cut-down chest. The only areas where it looks like there is paint is on a few of the snaps (not all) and possibly a couple of additional fixtures like the knee plate. There is no indication that any part of the ABS has been painted - and remember we're not talking about fuzzy screen grabs here but hi res pics taken inches away from the plastic. Again, though John Mollo's diary spoke of sandblasting andf repainting the initial 50 (stunt) helmets - it did not mention this for the close-up helmets nor the armour.

Also remember that at the same time AA was also producing the XWing helmets - of which Ive handled a couple and these were vac formed from a shiny ABS. So I can be sure that he was using a shiny, potentially acrylic capped ABS for other helmets he was making for the project at that time. It would be unusual that AA would have used one type of shiny ABS for one helmet, yet a dull ABS for the armour - without a good reason. Remember he initially used HDPE for the Stunt as its flexability allowed him to more easily produce the complex undercuts of the back and cap. Such undercuts dont exist on the armour

Like I said unless we examined every one of the 50 sets we couldnt be totally sure. However the balance of probability is again far in favour of the suits being non-painted white ABS. If there was any evidence that pointed to the contrary then Id be interested in seeing it as its eluded me to date

I actually think we've more chance of finding an White ABS Stunt helmet :)

Cheers

Jez


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 Post subject: Re: Putting the white in Stormtrooper...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:58 pm 
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A lot of what Jez says about the armour and helmets makes sense from a practicable point of view as well. The use of white ABS for the armour would have been less work for the filmmakers as they would not have to paint all of them. Also, during the rigors of filming they would have been easier to maintain with regard to the look of the costumes.

I think the only reason HDPE was used for the Stunt helmets was because, as Jez mentions, AA simply could not get decent pulls on the severe undercuts of those helmets using ABS. I think the only reason the Stunts were painted was because they HAD to use HDPE and the HDPE HAD to be painted white.


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 Post subject: Re: Putting the white in Stormtrooper...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:38 pm 
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So... question... was the armor painted before being trimmed from the formed sheets or after?

Certainly seems foolish to do it before trimming and those sheets certainly look white:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Putting the white in Stormtrooper...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:34 pm 
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My point was that the armour was unpainted white ABS. In the above picture you posted NHM it certainly looks like unpainted sheets of white ABS to me. On some of those you can see the undersides of the sheets and they look white also. Why would they paint the back part of the ABS sheet that is never seen and why paint ABS white when it's already white?


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 Post subject: Re: Putting the white in Stormtrooper...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:07 am 
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Correct. The armour was white ABS. No need to paint.

Cheers

Jez


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 Post subject: Re: Putting the white in Stormtrooper...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:20 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:56 am
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Location: Anchorage, Alaska
I think TM's point is that the white plastic armor was painted white (for whatever reason) so showing piles of white armor pulls doesn't change his argument.

We disagree even looking at the same evidence (which we can't share). I see evidence of touch up areas (seams, damage, etc.) and on rivets. I see no evidence of tell-tale paint "tells" -- spray texture, runs chipping, brush strokes, etc.

Doug


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 Post subject: Re: Putting the white in Stormtrooper...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:56 am 
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Wannab, I agree from a purely theoretical argument that there is no evidence that the armour was not painted white. But, from a practical stand point it makes no sense why they would paint it white if it was already white. That scenario just seems doubtful.


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 Post subject: Re: Putting the white in Stormtrooper...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:58 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:29 pm
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They would paint white plastic if it was dull or off white. I think there is no doubt the armour was white plastic, but regular ABS is not glossy (from my experience with it anyway) so if they spray painted all those helmets, couldn't they give the armour a warm over coat to bring it up glossy for filming? It's possible that they blasted a coat over the sheets before they left AA's and were assembled and 'then' touched up. The sheen on the armour is very inconsistant throughout ANH in my opinion. Until concrete evidence is shown, then we all only have our own opinions on the subject, which of course, we are all entitled to :)


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