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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:16 am 
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AnsonJames wrote:
Is the widows peak without the indentation?


It looks like it is there but almost faded, sanded. or just lost it's detail whatever the cause. Many parts of the dome look very good to call it another Authentic ANH cast.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:07 am 
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Location: england
There seems to be a lot of excitement about this new find. I don't understand why because there are so many details that are wrong which can only have come about by being remoulded and recast many times. The screen original does not have the distortions that appear on this helmet and mask.

Brian


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:17 pm 
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vaderman wrote:
There seems to be a lot of excitement about this new find. I don't understand why because there are so many details that are wrong which can only have come about by being remoulded and recast many times. The screen original does not have the distortions that appear on this helmet and mask.

Brian


Brian,

Can you pin point these details you're referring to? I'm sure we'd all benefit from your observations.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:27 pm 
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At least on the dome's right side, there is a huge distortion or dip. Huge being relative here, but the warping is noticeable, at least to my eyes. Some of the details seem a bit soft. That could be because of the clearcoat that is sprayed all over the face, I don't know. Then there is the lack of tabs on the thing and that goofy looking mounting. The eye ridges lack that slight flat surface and seems to have a pretty sharp cut. This could also be a trick of the lighting, hiding the other surface.

I'm giving some plausible reasons for some of the differences, I think. It looks like the helmet was "cleaned up" a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 10:21 pm
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Location: London, UK
What a find! Thanks for posting this!

Can you tell us what those lines are on either side of the neck, are they cracks?


cheers
Jeremy


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:38 pm 
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Thanks, Jez, for kindly showing us this casting. I agree with Brian, it's a later generation. The nosebridge is narrower and curved on the sides when looking in front view...that's one dead giveaway. It's proportions in the face (smaller mouth) suggest 20th C derivative. The tubes are shaped/defined like a 20th C as well. The right rear neck is straighter, too. I think I can tell where it was added to on the widows peak to make it look ANH, as there is a little bit of ESB shape left there, and the center ridge seems more like ESB with straighter sides. I'd have to look closer but I think the notches on the second tooth from the right are added on. The nailmarks on the cheeks are shallow like a 20th C derivative. And the noseslots are shaped like 20th C....actually like an SPFX. I agree with Qui that the eyebrow edges are too smoothed out. The U-shaped part of the nose is too narrow on the right, for example...something you see on 20th C derivatives. My guess is it will be 20th C sized as well, or smaller. And what's with the green paint? The definition of the crown/flaring division line also suggests something closer to a GH helmet. But I'm going to have a closer look at the photos to see if I can make out any detail in the helmet.


Last edited by SithLord on Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:51 pm
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Location: Geislingen, Germany
Dont know as much as i should know to make a comment if it´'s an authentic cast, but the pictures of this helmet lookin fantastic. I hope we will get more informations about this helmet. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:07 pm 
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Nice photos yes, I'm just curious what is being claimed about it. But apart from any provenance or claims, if the size is off the rest won't make a difference. Jez you have a 20th C copy, how does it compare in size to that? How does the helmet (dome) compare in size to your GH helmet?


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
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BingoBongo275 wrote:
Thanks for the input guys. It is a very interesting helmt since it has some tells that suggest it could be VERY important and alsosome others which are either missing or confusing (tusks being one).


Jez,

I just get excited seeing anything that looks old.

From one of those last two pics you posted, I think I know where you're going with this.

Image

I had wondered if this was somehow connected with the ESB Promo Poster Vader, though I hesitated to post that before being able to study better photographs. Were those last two photographed with a consumer digital camera, or were they snapped using an SLR? If you know, do let me know.

(It should be noted that the above comp is taken at different photographic distances and possibly two different types of camera lenses resulting in different degrees of perspective distortion.)

Image

Also, the "Y" shaped crease here seems to have been sanded down. The dome's brow's fold line also looks diminished.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:41 pm 
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Location: UK
Again guys thanks for the comments

First off just to say that I have no financial/commercial interest in this helmet whatsoever and am not looking to purchase it so whether its worth $1 or $100k I really dont mind - other than the "value" it has to this hobby IF it does have some pedigree. Lets not forget this is a hobby!

Some comments:

1) I have not handled this helmet personally yet - I'm only relying on photo evidence like the rest of you. However I trust the person greatly who owns the helmet and have known him for years

2) Mac- yes the comparison against the ESB promo had been in mind - however though there are some similarities - such as the marking on Vaders rear left inside of the dome - there are significant differences.

3) The new replacement connection interests me -or actually the holes under. What are the screw placings of the apple tabs - is it possible they could have been there once?

4) I too looked at the 20thC as a comparison but from what I understand this is significantly larger. I'll get the precise measurments if I can before I go away on my hols on Friday

5) better pics of the neck show cracks, thats all

6) Colour - could it be fading of old paint. Is there any benefit to dating the paint to at least see how old it is. Can this be done in UK or US?

7) Some of the provenance I spoke about were some other parts that came with this - one of which had what I BELIEVE to be an accurate B&N wardrope tag. I'm just verifying that separately.

8) In addition the circumstances surrounding it are interesting. Over the years I've heard some yearns on this subject but this one is a little different. There was certainly no "sting" here. Sorry to be vague, but I'm just qualifying my interest.

Image

Image

Image

Cheers

Jez


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:51 pm 
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Jez,

Could these new photos be taken 6 feet back? It's very difficult to ascertain structural quirks when some things could be lens distortion. Sorry to chant the Mac Mantra. :cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:02 pm 
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Very nice comparison, Mac.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:06 pm 
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Location: Geislingen, Germany
Great comparison pic Mac. The poster helmet is one of my favorites :drool And the unknown helmet looks great next to the screen used.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:52 am 
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I've had time to examine the photos some more. There are some differences in the mask with the movie poster mask (apart from obvious things like paint), but that helmet....the interior flaws replicate that of the movie poster helmet (!!!). Where the paint chips off in that side view on the mask...you can see how thick the paint is...so there could be more detail than we are seeing ala what happened with the TM. But things like the width of the U-shaped part of the nose (narrower on the mystery mask), the teeth gap widths (narrower on the mystery mask), the narrower nosebridge on the mystery mask (lighting effect?), yet there is at least one area with some detail on the mystery mask that is not on the ESB movie poster mask. Yet with the helmet there's an imperfection on the tip of the widow's peak that is just there on the mystery helmet...along with those interior details that match....you can't replicate that so easily. The differences in the mystery mask from the movie mask could all have been done afterward like cleaning up the teeth, sanding down the sides of the nosebridge (???), sanding down the right side of the U-shaped part of the nose, etc. and it could have been repainted. It's really something....it might be the same helmet. But if it is, then the mask was altered a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:45 am 
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INCREDIBLE!!!


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