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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:08 pm 
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Here's an observation.

The Prop Store photo is taken almost top-down. The shin guard appears to be Kermit's left shin. That's his left boot, and the frontal features match with the TPS shin on the right in terms of lines, bumps, subtleties and distortions.

So with the shin leaned up against the wall, you may see more of the calves. That, in conjunction with the darkened area representing the reflection of Kermit's boot, that might explain in part what we're seeing.

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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:21 pm 
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However, the way the foot area is cut may also suggest vacforming. There is some extra material that might be the plastic after the vacforming wrapped around the edge. However, if in ts casting that the original shins were like this (e.g. original production ESB domes also show that the edges were molded and not just the outer surfaces) then it's possible this is FG... just not cleaned up very well.

There are many intricate subtleties, surface deformations, etc. that are associated with molding off of a clay sculpt using silicone molds and FG. The Prop Store material looks thin, and while the edges appear sharp, a lot of those subtle distinctions in the Kermit don't appear to be there, although paint does wonders for certain things.

Also, there is a funny difference between the way the feet areas are cut. On the Kermit, it's a smooth arc or curve. The Prop Store ones show the ankles to level off horizontally.

If I were to just take a guess, I think the TPS version is a vacform over something that descended from a production original but was cleaned up. Some of the TPS surfaces are flatter than the Kermit shin.

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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:01 pm 
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firebladejedi wrote:
Looking at this pic i would say the shins were plastic as it looks like there is a big crease as if its been sqaushed by something heavy or something. FG would not bend like that, or am i seeing things?

Image


Exactly...you can see where they didn't trim the bottom curve where the ankle is that well...


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:33 pm 
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The crease is a reflection.
Also anything trimmed improperly would look like that - including fibreglass.

Obviously they could also be plastic but they also could have been made a good while after ANH finished.
Didn't someone say some of the tour helmets had vac formed domes?
If that's the case it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility that vac shins were made for promo purposes also.

This is obviously speculation but determining what something is made from using a Black and white photo is also.


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:11 pm 
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If you look at the original photo you can see that there's a crack in the ankle section where that uncut portion is and it looks like plastic to me at least. Plus the edges are really sharp wrapping around the ankle...if that was fiberglass it would dig into the leather of the pants and tear them...whereas ABS will flex. I've worn fiberglass shins and they are hell on the leather on the ankle and actually can hurt your ankle too if they are not fitted properly. It could be one reason there might have been ABS shins as well. But I guess the jury is still out. Personally I lean toward them being ABS.

Image

Whatever the propstore pulls came from...even if not from the source claimed, they are the closest to originals I've ever seen...and from that point of view I think worth it also because the ESB and ANH shins are pretty much identical.


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:24 pm 
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Thomas,

I agree that those shins are probably plastic - the 'excess' would cut the hell out of leather if it were fibreglass.

I just don't think they're production shins - I think they're promo shins made after ANH.


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:36 pm 
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So, we are sure that that's just one shin in the picture? It can't be both shins stacked on top of each other up against the wall?

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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 11:05 pm 
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NoHumorMan wrote:
So, we are sure that that's just one shin in the picture? It can't be both shins stacked on top of each other up against the wall?


I doubt it. What we're seeing is the short shin in the Kermit shot. Again, the ankles are cut differently on the TPS than on Kermit's. That merits more study.

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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 11:12 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
If you look at the original photo you can see that there's a crack in the ankle section where that uncut portion is and it looks like plastic to me at least.



Thomas,

Do you have a larger and clearer image of the black and white Kermit shin shot than the one posted in this thread?

If so, please post it.

If not, I find it very difficult to say with any degree of authority or certainty that it looks one way or the other. Based on the image posted, that crack is barely 5 pixels wide by 5 pixels high.

Image

It is impossible to tell if it's plastic or fiberglass by a tiny area so small.

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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 11:17 pm 
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AnsonJames wrote:
Thomas,

I agree that those shins are probably plastic - the 'excess' would cut the hell out of leather if it were fibreglass.

I just don't think they're production shins - I think they're promo shins made after ANH.



I remain open to the possibility. Part of fan lore (which I am unable to verify or corroborate) is that towards the production of ESB, LFL needed the kermit suit back. The Kermit suit is comprised of screen-used material. At some point, according to fan lore, the suit was molded off of, and Kermit wore a copy afterwards.

But then there is fan lore which suggests that some conned Kermit and showed up a day earlier posing as LFL's people and took the suit away, so that contradicts the first story.

Of these two stories, I honestly don't know what to believe. I was not there. It's generally immaterial to my collecting and artistic pursuits anyway ("nice to know" versus "need to know").

At any rate, if the shins are plastic, then why isn't the armor considered to be plastic? The thickness of the edge of the armor is obvious.

Also, why isn't the helmet and mask a copy rather than being the screen-used original? Why replace only the shins?

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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 11:25 pm 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
But then there is fan lore which suggests that some conned Kermit and showed up a day earlier posing as LFL's people and took the suit away, so that contradicts the first story.

That iirc was disproven, as Mr. Eller delivered the suit to LFL himself.

CSMacLaren wrote:
Also, why isn't the helmet and mask a copy rather than being the screen-used original? Why replace only the shins?

Someone mentioned their fiberglass shins breaking. Why replace anything else if it wasn't broken? Maybe they were replaced to keep them from breaking? Or... maybe they are the original fiberglass shins.

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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:09 am 
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AnsonJames wrote:
Thomas,

I agree that those shins are probably plastic - the 'excess' would cut the hell out of leather if it were fibreglass.

I just don't think they're production shins - I think they're promo shins made after ANH.



Why do they look identical to the production shins then? Do they look as sharp as fiberglass shins would be? When you vacuform you lose some of the sharpness. And Anson is right, and I personally believe they were switched during production as fiberglass would really damage the leather suit, and hurt the ankles. But that's just a thought.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:36 am 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
Do you have a larger and clearer image of the black and white Kermit shin shot than the one posted in this thread?

If so, please post it.


yep that's what I showed....that little photo is from a larger version...and you can see the crack and how sharp the sides are...that would be painful to wear if it was fiberglass!


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:17 am 
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I am somewhat lost here and could use a little clarification.With this picture are we discussing the material and forming of the screen shin armour or the authenticity of the PSoL production shins?

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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:14 am 
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Both. If they were vacuformed at any time, that would have some bearing on the Propstore shin molds. Of course as Brian implied they may not at all be authentic, but the question is if you took two shins that looked like those...would they be as Brian sculpted them or are they really inaccurate. To me at least they don't appear to look inaccurate. Whether they are authentic is another question...


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