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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:01 am 
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The UK sites still up and trading and will continue to till one of them blokes in the white curly wigs here in blighty say otherwise.
I've been reading about this everywhere and my opinion on what the outcome will be changes several times a day.
Surely AA would have the forsight to realise that LFL would try and shut him down?
Afterall he has been in business for decades .
Currently im with the view that if LFL do chase him up in a UK court LFL will likely win but the figure of $20m will be substantialy reduced
I'm not a fan of SDS myself mostly because of the experiance i had dealing with them and i think his kits are well overpriced £600 for a set of armour alone was just about bearable but then to up the price to £950 was just a joke the armours not even much good for trooping in it looks the business but by all accounts isnt very durable and bits crack and break regularly
still having said that i wouldnt like to see him shut down

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:48 pm 
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http://rpf.exoray.com/LFL_vs_SDS/

Getting a default judgement like that in Line Item 36 is a major slap in the face.

Line item 10's PDF, Page 6 basically amounts to saying that AA has been falsely advertising himself as the designer of the Stormtrooper helmet, when his company wasn't even around during EP IV, and that the helmet was designed by LFL people before AA ever got to work on the UK set.

Quote:
"Defendant Ainsworht states he 'created' the Stormtrooper helmets and costumes.... but his claim is absurd, fiven inter alia, that the Star Wars paintings depicting Stormtroopers were registred for copyright in 1975 or a year before defendant Ainsworth contents he was asked to help with the customes. ... Further, he does not deny that he was engaged to make the molds and plastic items to Lucasfilm's specifications and that the molds were based on models or sculptures prepared by Lucasfilm's personnel from Lucasfilm's artwork and drawings. His conclusionary assertion aside, the helmets and constumes prepared in 1976 were three-dimensional copies of pre-existing and copyrighted artwork, which Lucasfilm owns."

"For over 25 years after the production of the 1977 Star Wars movie, defendant Ainsworth apparently stayed in the business of making plastic boat or car parts. Commencing in April, 2004, however -- after one of the few remaining original, "screen-used" Stormtrooper helmets sold at auction in the United States -- defendant Ainsworth began offeringf or sale life-size copies of the Stormtrooper and TIE fighter pilor helmets on the Internet and in periodicals such as the prominent United States fan magazine, Starlog.... Of course, Lucasfilm never authorized defendant's explortation of any Star Wars merchandise... Defendants also advertise and promote their infringing products by misrepresenting that, for example, defendant's helmets are idnetical to those worn by actors in the 1977 Star Warts movie, that defendant Ainsworth designed the Star Wars helmets and that defendant Shepperton -- which did not exist in 1976 -- is the "original company" that made the helmets."


Based on the above, I don't think AA's helmets will go up in value because of the false claims of the originality of his work. I think owners of these helmets will be disappointed that -- according to the lawsuit -- AA basically misrepresented himself and the facts (read: false advertising).

Something about the aesthetics of SDS's helmets bothered me and looked "off" like the mold got warped or something. I think some of the other unlicensed helmets look far better in terms of shape and proportions.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:30 pm 
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What/who is Shepperton Design Studios and Andrew Ainsworth?
Andrew Ainsworth established Shepperton Design Studio's in 1974 and we produced a range of products and designs for the British film industry in the late seventies, early eighties. He sculpted, fabricated and produced the original helmets used for the first movie in 1976 and using the same moulds and processes is doing the same again almost 30 years later.

that statement is straight from the sds site it clearly states that the company was created in 1974 if that is true then it will be easily proved as all companys have to be registered in UK law

Another statement from the site

How accurate are these helmets?
These helmets are the most accurate replicas of the screen-used helmets ever produced. Each helmet is hand-made by the original prop-makers using the original 1976 movie moulds. in addition, many of the same materials have been used although where necessary, more modern plastics have been used taking advantage of the improvements in this field over the past 28 years.

These helmets are unique as they are 1st GENERATION facsimiles of the on-screen designs, and feature the same idiosyncrasies as the original helmets. For example the original screen-used Trooper "Stunt" helmets featured hand cut eye "sockets" which have been faithfully reproduced on these replicas. We have reproduced true reproductions of the screen-used helmets, not sanitised toy versions which have made them in effect "blood-brothers" to the screen-used helmets.

it in my view clearly states that "many" of the same materials have been used for the reproductions i would personally dearly love to see a list of the "many parts" i dont for one second believe myself that any of the helmets are made using the same material

As for did he design the helmet i hold judgement on that one clearly RM did the concept art but those pictures could be argued as not being the actual product there are lots of differences between the concept art and the final product AA could argue that infact he came up with the final design which was inspired and influenced by the concept art but the final design was his .
i certainly havent seen any preproduction art of the trooper helmets as they actually appeared in the movies

i have my own ideas on wether the helmets that AA is selling are from original moulds or not but i'm not going to go into that its been done to death a 1000 times before by a 1000 different people

its still a very open case from both sides far from done and dusted this one but i think we all know that there will only be one loser if it comes down to a battle of wallets

regardless of anything else i still think AA's repros are nice helmets with the exception of the battle spec its touted as being designed for costumers and people on a budget but in my mind its too flimsy and you can get more rugged just as accurate fan made helmets for half the price

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:57 am 
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The word out on the street -- and may more knowledgeable people please help clarify the facts -- was that the SDS helmets were reworks and recasts of other people's helmets. I read a critique of SDS' helmets being somewhat distorted for someone who claimed to cast them from the original molds, and the critique came from people who referenced screenshots and noticed many discrepancies.

Regardless of whether the above was true, in my brief reading of the various lawsuit PDFs, even though LFL hit SDS with infringement upon their intellectual property (IP) and trademarks, I think they were more after his false representation. Assuming the above is true, SDS was deceiving fans on various levels, and I got the sense that LFL was doing this not only to protect their IP but also protect fans in one sense.

Of course the lawyers nailed him for infringement of IP. Lawyers try to find the maximum number of faults the defentant has and try to toss them all at once -- hopefully at least a few will stick, and the ones that do stick will be the ones that make the case a "slam-dunk."

The 501st make helmets, sure. Some are offered as kits on eBay marked as "Stormtrooper" or "Vader". There is no way to reference them otherwise. But the thing is these providers aren't plastering their websites with Star Wars logos and making themselves to look official as if they were an authoratative source.

SDS was essentially promoting themselves as THE authoratative source. They B.S'ed the fans and LFL called them on it, and I'm glad they did. I think that LFL is more dedicated to the fans than we give LFL credit for.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:23 am 
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I believe, from what little I followed the discussions, that the helmet was his own work - probably an "original" faceplate and then a new sculpted back and cap and new ears.

His armor is allegedly recast from other sources... or at least some of it... that's what I heard.

I have no first-hand knowledge about this.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:00 pm 
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The armor appears to be a recast TE, so I've heard.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:10 pm 
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I found a site that was reporting how the SDS was the most accurate (for the Stunt and Hero helmets). How valid is this statement?

And is there any veracity that Ainsworth "designed" the Stormtroopers?

As for me, I feel that Ralph McQuarrie designed them, but there are some people who actualize things in 3D that would say an artistic concept is not a design but that the design is the full three dimensional actualization. Regardless of this perspective, Ainsworth lost.

Found this article too:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6121886.stm

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:03 pm 
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Well, I own both and IMO the face plate is is the best part of it and may proberly be an (reworked) original part. The neck, dome and ears are open to debate. The ears are newly designed IMO.

The way a stormtrooper helmet is assembled is key to its appearance and the SDS helmets are assembled wrong.

If memory serves SL did a great comparison on the RPF a few weeks ago with some stunning results.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:21 pm 
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Could you repost those findings for those of us who don't have the benefit of having access to RPF? Thanks!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:23 pm 
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I'm absolutely sure that the SDS helmets (battle spec aside) ARE from the original moulds. However there's clearly been some damage between 1976 and 2004 and SDS shouldnt have used terms like "perfect and identical".

However IMO the helmet moulds claim is truthful. AA's gone to war with Lucasfilm and he's not stupid to have made the whole thing up. I agree that his reported comments about the armour was IMO not true as its clearly a RotJ derivative (although ethically still his own work)

The thread earlier posting comments from "he who cant be named" was rubbish - that guy really knows how to twist a fact and spin a story - he should work for our Government :lol

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:08 am 
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Quote:
And is there any veracity that Ainsworth "designed" the Stormtroopers?

As for me, I feel that Ralph McQuarrie designed them, but there are some people who actualize things in 3D that would say an artistic concept is not a design but that the design is the full three dimensional actualization. Regardless of this perspective, Ainsworth lost.


Yes RM did concept art for the stormtroopers but the final product is clearly different from the concept design as are all the character concept drawings for ANH

The concept art wasn't commisioned in the first place for prop makers to work from Lucas commisioned the art to show to prospective financial backers

Personally i think the case of I.P theft is going to be a very messy and long drawn out case and a hard one for either side to prove one way or the other.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:08 am 
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Defstartrooper wrote:
Quote:
And is there any veracity that Ainsworth "designed" the Stormtroopers?

As for me, I feel that Ralph McQuarrie designed them, but there are some people who actualize things in 3D that would say an artistic concept is not a design but that the design is the full three dimensional actualization. Regardless of this perspective, Ainsworth lost.


Yes RM did concept art for the stormtroopers but the final product is clearly different from the concept design as are all the character concept drawings for ANH

The concept art wasn't commisioned in the first place for prop makers to work from Lucas commisioned the art to show to prospective financial backers

Personally i think the case of I.P theft is going to be a very messy and long drawn out case and a hard one for either side to prove one way or the other.


I agree with you 100% - this is going to get very messy. I dont think LFL thought AA was going to defend himself, assuming he would throw the towel in like everyone else (which he did for obvious reasons in the US). I certainly didnt expect AA to put up such a fight.

The real issue is going to be how long AA can stay in the fight, since LFL can take as long as it wants as it has very deep pockets. The only downside for them is the reputational damage caused by a protracted case, and the fact that IMO its going to open up a can or worms as (irrespective of what we all think of Lucasfilm), they clearly DID NOT do the necessary legal copyright work for ANH - which is why theyre now in the position they are.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:52 pm 
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Hi everyone..I'm new to the forums here so...
Hello!
My real name is Scott, and I am a 41 year old child living in Metro Detroit. :wink:

reason for the post is I have been emailing AA personally over the last few weeks regarding a potential purchase of armor and a battle spec. It all started with my emailing him asking whether sales could continue in light of the whole LFL licensing fiasco.
I must say I agree with some of the above posts that say he is convinced of his innocence, to say the least. He certainly is. He is also "quite certain" that any UK court would uphold his position, etc etc and that he already has "councel's opinion they would win." I might add he is an incredibly nice guy, and has never claimed to me that he "designed" the Trooper look, only that he was charged with producing what MacQuarrie (and others?) conceptualized. Inasmuch as he had to interpolate a 3D product from 2d sketches, I think that is where he claims any sort of ownership. Even on sdsprops.com, I haven't found anywhere that says he designed the look, only designed and produced the molds to produce the darn things. And he claims he never signed over the rights to his molds.

I also agree with another post above that wonders why other makers (FX, etc) haven't been targeted and why they even seem to be openly embraced. I suppose because they are fan-sculpted and haven't claimed affiliation with LFL whatsoever. But please, can you say "openly copying and profiting from Star Wars on a massive scale?" If that isn't I don't know what is. The charity work done by the 501st has to come into play, but not everyone who buys an FX kit joins a costuming community. I'm not saying there isn't cause for debate--just that there doesn't seem to be any more cause than others who seem to be ignored.

And then there are guys who cast off of a screen-accurate set, and mass produce that. :rolleyes and this is ignored by LFL. very odd.

Bottom line I think the whole dispute is sad. I also agree that SDS should have come to the table negotiating rather than taking a hard line, IMHO. It all comes down to the almighty dollar. If FX or GF or other kits came with an SDS price tag (which is ludicrous for a pile of plastic parts, let's face it) I'm sure LFL would be taking a hard look at them too.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:00 pm 
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Hello and welcome Scott. Definitely some valid points there. Whenever someone too openly sells Star Wars stuff they get targeted by LFL, or when they claim ownership or "over-charge" for their products.

This is just speculation on my part, but I think the reason SDS was targeted was because of his high profile sales, his claims of ownership and from original molds - the latter having somewhat been shown not to really be true. Also... once in a while, LFL has to set an example among the infringer's that they are watching and will take legal action when infringer gets too bold and public.

Just my opinion.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:22 pm 
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NHM thats EXACTLY why SDS were targeted by Lucasfilm

I'm sure MR pressured LFL which is why we saw the much-hurried "prototype" Stormtrooper lid at the toy fair a couple of years back.

SDS were open about selling as AA genuinely believes he owns the copyright, and we will soon find out in the UK courts whether he does

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