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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 5:11 am 
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I think it was caused by a large cat. I think the designated C in the term C-scar stands for Cougar. I think one got loose on the set, because if you've seen some of those wild parties behind the scenes.......some of those guys look pretty deviant and maybe.....okay it's just a theory, work with me here.


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 7:50 pm 
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Sometimes, Dave, I very much like your way of thinking, but just sometimes..... :lol

:cheers


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:59 pm 
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Damn right I'm bumping a 5 year old thread now that the original ANH has been found! :lol


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:20 pm 
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Yes I was thinking the same thing, and it pretty much shows what I was trying to show with the SL ANH all along in regard to what the C scar actually is and actually looks like.


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:13 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
Yes I was thinking the same thing, and it pretty much shows what I was trying to show with the SL ANH all along in regard to what the C scar actually is and actually looks like.



I really hope we can get some more pictures of it now that we know where the ANH is!


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:45 am 
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I subscribe to the prevailing belief that it's the termination of that broad smudge, which is at a slightly deeper depth into the mask than the area outside the smudge perimeter, that gives rise to the C-Scar. Then the question is what is the cause or reason for the smudge? I have a theory for that which no one has mentioned here before.

The root cause I think is... wait for it... wait for it... the nose droop.

The what? Well, I don't know if there's conventional name for the feature, but I'm referring to the sharp downward angle at the tip of the nose. It reminds me of the way the nose of the Concorde angled down for landing which the designers called "nose droop".

The nose droop to me always looked like a last-minute addition to the mask, and I believe it was. There's a lot going on at the tip of the nose. Several distinct surface facets and what looks like the starting point of that smudge that swipes from just behind the nose tip across the right cheek, terminating in the area of the C-scar.

I believe the nose droop was added either as a final step in the sculpting of the mask, or to the plaster cast made of Brian's original sculpt. Because of the roughness of the features I'd guess it was to the plaster cast. It looks almost like they were scraped off. And a curved tool would logically have been used along the cheek which could be why the termination of it is also curved. But it could also have been done as part of the original sculpt and caused by a thumb swipe.

In the vicinity of that smudge on the right cheek and along top and bottom there are transitions between sections that are curved and sections that are straight. The cheek might have started out as a smooth continuous curve, but by adding the nose droop, the last part of that curve was truncated. I think the straight portions of the cheek were needed to provide transition and flow to accommodate the addition of the nose droop.

The fact that the nose droop is painted silver also contributes to my notion that this feature could have been a last-minute addition to enhance visibility by the camera. By flattening it and painting it silver the result would be an enhancement of the reflection of light back to the camera in the profile view.

Looking at the picture I mocked up, I'm suggesting that starting with the red facet is the first part of implementing the nose droop. This includes the downward angle to the nose tip and flattening to make it perpendicular to the camera in a profile view. The orange and blue facets are then needed to merge with the red facet. And the grey swoop starting at its intersection with the blue and orange facets, pressed in hard at first to connect seamlessly at that junction and pulled across the cheek with continuously lighter pressure to its termination in the area of the C-Scar.

Just a theory (but aren't they all in regard to the C-Scar). But it came to mind as I was trying to add a nose droop to my DLDPX to enhance its accuracy, and I found that to accommodate that addition I needed to change a lot more, along the lines of what I outlined here.


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:04 am 
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Your theory doesn't really make sense to me. The reason it is not an easy fix on the DP DLX is because they filled up that area and it was softened greatly, removing the border transition between the cheek face and the tip out to the front of the nose, making it a continuous shape from nosetip to outer cheek edge. The DP is soft and sanitized and has had loads of details removed.

The real helmet has fairly the same detail on the other side where the transition is even sharper. Also it isn't painted silver. That's a light reflection off the black surface.

The look on the helmet is consistent with damage caused by an impact that may or may not have been attempted to be repaired.


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:12 am 
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Yes, I know the DPDLX was softened. And I deleted the following from the previous post before I submitted because I didn't think it added to the theory I was proposing.

*** The nose droop isn't present on the DPDLX, DPCA, or Rubies, at least not in the way they were painted (ironically, the DP standard DOES have the nose droop). The DPDLX was of course sanded down and smoothed thereby removing many original features. But some hints of those original features can be faintly seen like details in the teeth and even in the shape of the tip of the nose still retaining a hint of the nose droop when the curvature of the paint scheme applied is disregarded. I mention this in part because in smoothing the curvature of the cheek, you almost necessarily need to omit the nose droop.
***


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:47 am 
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Well, I applaud your enthusiasm and your constant will to rethink things. To shake things up and I'm sorry if I come off as being too harsh.

The main reason I don't buy the theory is that if that was the case then the helmet would look the same in that area throughout the movie. Fact is: it doesn't. It changes.


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:14 pm 
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Bantha, I appreciate the input and analysis. I by no means think I have the answer to the C scar, but this is my theory. In some ways it kind of coincides with what you are illustrating, but in a different way.

Five years ago, (wow has it been that long?), I posted this pic to illustrate what I believe caused some of the damage to Vader's neck. The guy putting on the faceplate has a wedding band on. That constant scraping against the neck cause what I believe to be those hash marks on Vader's right side. The other black smudge om Vader's lower left side is caused by his thumb pressing into that area as well. These guys weren't wearing cotton gloves and not much care was being given to the faceplate. As far as everyone felt on scene during filming, this movie was going to be a one hit wonder never to be seen or heard from again. That would explain why everyone decided to take their own souvenirs home after filming finished. Here son, I brought home this stormtrooper bucket to kick around in the yard, no one is going to miss it. :lol

Image


And my theory on the C scar is along the same lines. I believe that when the faceplate was being put on, fingers were all over the place on the faceplate and that curve of the cheek could have caused the movement towards the left, creating that small buildup, or just the plain indentation of the thumb in that area. With all the dirt and oils on those hands during filming, it lliterally ate away at the paint, causing the C scar and other damage etc to the faceplate. I know from putting on my faceplate on my display numerous times, that the position of the fingers go all over the faceplate, as I try to illustrate in this pic with one of my TMs.

Image


Strangely enough the curve of the C scar runs along the same shape as the side of my thumb.

Image

Again, these are just my opinions on how we have the artifacts we do on the faceplate, but they are certainly not the only reasons why.


Last edited by Lambotour on Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:36 pm 
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Saw something like what you are suggesting in the Dressing Vader video. Sent you a mail with some captures.


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:45 pm 
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No Humor Man wrote:
Saw something like what you are suggesting in the Dressing Vader video. Sent you a mail with some captures.


Awesome. Thank you for the pics. It's exactly what I was trying to convey. I have the video, but didn't think to watch it. Here are the pics that say it best, thanks again Carsten:

Image

Image

Image

Image


Now I hope the C scar debate can be put to rest. If you still think it's a painted on detail, then you have no business discussing vader.


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:47 pm 
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Glad I could help.


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:55 pm 
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No Humor Man wrote:
Glad I could help.


You did, immensely. I also wanted to say, which I didn't mention in my post above, that the indentation may have also been caused by his nails. Looking at those pics and how he's digging into the faceplate, I believe that is the more probable outcome. Either way, it's not a painted on detail. :violent


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:40 am 
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That is the best and most logical explanation of the C-Scar I've ever heard. Nailed it! Thanks guys :cheers


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