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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:48 am 
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From what I understand, the Hero ANH helmet was sent to US for
pickups. Something definitely happened to the mask as far as
construction goes as if you look very carefully at the stills of Vader's Tie cock pit shots (which were picked up in L.A.) you will notice that the mouth grill is positioned in front of the teeth!

I don't think the mask was repainted. I think it just kept getting cleaned and polished after the merciless recasting it kept receiving.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:17 pm 
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HAL9000 wrote:
.... if you look very carefully at the stills of Vader's Tie cock pit shots (which were picked up in L.A.) you will notice that the mouth grill is positioned in front of the teeth!


Hal, here's a blow up of one of the cockpit stills, but I don't see what you are referring to. Do you have any additional pics that show this?

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:50 pm 
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Darth Karo wrote:
I will have to say that there were at least two different molds taken, one with tabs (UK) and one without tabs (USA). The TM and the original VP are both UK based and have full intact tabs. Your faceplate has the tabs also, but I don't know if you've ever stated whether it was US based or not. You may have, but I forgot. I believe your faceplate and the TM were cast before the DJ. I don't know the whole history with regard to the original VP and when it was originally cast. I will also go with my gut feeling that this new cast will not have more detail than your faceplate or the TM you currently have in your possession. I'm not stepping on anyone's toes here. It is my opinion and I might be proven wrong, but I don't think so. I also believe that DJs faceplate and dome was a byproduct of an already, ever so slightly, modified/cleaned up original. There are tells on the DJ that indicate that. Thomas, I think once you receive the new cast and can compare it with what you have, you might agree. If I'm wrong then I look forward to being educated.


The TD ANH is UK-based like the VP and TM with the same tabs. I really can't say how much detail the SL ANH will have compared to the TD or TM.
Yes it makes sense that the DJ was cast later than the TM and TD, and even that the SL was cast later...but it's also a question of when the molds were taken in the UK and in the US. I would guess the UK molds were taken first but when was that Elstree photo of the original mask taken? If it was during the production of Raiders then 1979...but what was it doing back at Elstree...that's a big question on my mind. I assume that once it made it's way to the US it stayed there. The grill is identical in every photo I've seen.

I'm not sure why you think the DJ is from a slightly cleaned up original because then it would be from a different mold and according to DJ it is not.

What I might do is compare two or three details from the TD, TM, DJ and SL and my prediction is the SL will be the best or on par with the TM at least in unpainted form.

I'm almost thinking it would be interesting to loan DJ the TM mask I have been examining and have him compare it to his casting...but it's not really the best comparison since the TM is raw and the DJ is painted...plus the SL should be as good if not better than the DJ.


Last edited by SithLord on Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:03 pm 
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vadermania wrote:
I personally think that the screen-used ANH helmet was repainted at one point after shooting was completed, probably at DPS. Maybe the tabs were changed/replaced with newer ones, too. I think it's fact that after the faceplate has been molded to produce the mold where the TM and the VP master came from, the tabs were simply unusable because the little "fingers" broke off and got stuck in the silicone of the mold. One can see remnants of them on the bigger blobs on the cast tabs of the TM faceplate.

The KE pics from DPS show a very worn-off helmet with lots of dangs and scratches, so do the Corbis pics and the recently discovered b/w pic of the ANH helmet. But at the Chinese theater footprint ceremony, the helmet did look much newer. Same with the pics in the STW Chronicles book. That's why I think the original helmet was repainted (and probably sanded before), probably refitted with new tabs, lenses and mouth grills....the rest is up to you...



I agree about the tabs but don't think it was repainted that early on. Your TM has details one can see that were in the paint itself and I don't mean brush strokes...and I'm guessing the TM mold was pulled during the ESB production which would have been 1979. Do you have any better idea when the mold that produced your helmet might have been pulled? The Corbis pics are probably at the beginning of the tour.

I should check the grill in the helmet seen in the chronicles...

Alan, I'll probably get the SL ANH early next week but it depends on the shipping method we go with. I'll take some time to look it over and take photos as well.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:59 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
vadermania wrote:
I personally think that the screen-used ANH helmet was repainted at one point after shooting was completed, probably at DPS. Maybe the tabs were changed/replaced with newer ones, too. I think it's fact that after the faceplate has been molded to produce the mold where the TM and the VP master came from, the tabs were simply unusable because the little "fingers" broke off and got stuck in the silicone of the mold. One can see remnants of them on the bigger blobs on the cast tabs of the TM faceplate.

The KE pics from DPS show a very worn-off helmet with lots of dangs and scratches, so do the Corbis pics and the recently discovered b/w pic of the ANH helmet. But at the Chinese theater footprint ceremony, the helmet did look much newer. Same with the pics in the STW Chronicles book. That's why I think the original helmet was repainted (and probably sanded before), probably refitted with new tabs, lenses and mouth grills....the rest is up to you...



I agree about the tabs but don't think it was repainted that early on. Your TM has details one can see that were in the paint itself and I don't mean brush strokes...and I'm guessing the TM mold was pulled during the ESB production which would have been 1979. Do you have any better idea when the mold that produced your helmet might have been pulled? The Corbis pics are probably at the beginning of the tour.

I should check the grill in the helmet seen in the chronicles...

Alan, I'll probably get the SL ANH early next week but it depends on the shipping method we go with. I'll take some time to look it over and take photos as well.


Cool, I'm as excited as you are bro :)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:37 pm 
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Eagerly awaiting early next week.

I really cant wait to see much better pics of this helmet.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:28 pm 
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Yeah... the ones in the auction was a joke, imo.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:11 am 
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NoHumorMan wrote:
Yeah... the ones in the auction was a joke, imo.


Too much... (brace yourselves) perspective distortion!

Stand back six feet and zoom in when photographing!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:48 pm 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
NoHumorMan wrote:
Yeah... the ones in the auction was a joke, imo.


Too much... (brace yourselves) perspective distortion!

Stand back six feet and zoom in when photographing!


:lol :lol :lol


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:51 pm 
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Mac, that should be in your signature :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:39 am 
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darthvaderv wrote:
Mac, that should be in your signature :wink:


Ironically he is right!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:29 am 
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Why, am I getting that repetitive? :toothy

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:17 pm 
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yup! :lol it makes sense. and it will help us remember how to take pics the right way. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:27 am 
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GINO wrote:
I have serious reservations about this helmet being authentic.
Without seeing better, more close up photos, that's a huge $6000 risk.
Even in those far shots, there are things on the facemask that are different than a true studio cast.



So....I let this go for a while but time to task and you know that when it comes to your assessments of authenticity I don't hold back :fight ...you were quick to post this but never actually elaborated on what exactly is "different" with the SL mask. So what are the "things" different with it that you can see from the photos? It seems the way you posted that there were very specific problems with it that perhaps myself and DJ overlooked, but that you seem to think rule it out as being authentic.
And what exactly are you basing what a "true studio cast" should look like?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:04 pm 
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Great score Thomas! Somehow I missed this auction or I would have given you a good run for the money. I love overpaying for great SW stuff. :)

:salut


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