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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:41 am 
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Yes the tube merge is different which was one of a few things that I was concerned about, but if it is the same mask, then it could just be an effect of repainting...of overspray...that closed up the section where they join together...although I wouldn't expect that. The shape of the tubes appears similar which is good...


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:09 pm 
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Wow, well, as a newcomer to the site I gotta say this thread was an amazing read, exciting and extremely educational - well done all, some impressive analysis and insight! :thumbsup

What luck this guy had in having this bucket and pieces cross his path! Once-in-a-lifetime.
*sigh* Well... maybe I should go buy a lottery ticket...
:cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
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Location: San Jose, CA
I'm looking at the vertical line on the cheek, and I'm wondering if it's the vertical pole that's holding up the lighting diffuser.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:12 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:03 pm
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Location: UK
Ive not been on the forums much recently but notice Gino on the RPF trying to suggest that I use him as my font of knowledge :rolleyes

When the owner came to me with this helmet and costume I specifically came here to ask members their opinions - since I have great respect for the depth of Vader knowledge that exists here.

Cheers

Jez


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:33 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:51 pm
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Will we see some more pics of this great suit Jez?


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:02 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:03 pm
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Location: UK
I'm trying to sort out a review video - and convince the owner to let me progress.

We've been talking about it for a year - I'm still pushing.....

Cheers

Jez


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:53 am 
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Star Wars Helmets wrote:
Ive not been on the forums much recently but notice Gino on the RPF trying to suggest that I use him as my font of knowledge :rolleyes

When the owner came to me with this helmet and costume I specifically came here to ask members their opinions - since I have great respect for the depth of Vader knowledge that exists here.

Cheers

Jez


Glad to hear it. Gino is right at times. More right than wrong for that matter but simply put, some here have these cast off originals in hand and far less altered to make better assessments instead of over fabricating details and making judgements based on wishful thinking. He doesn't do it all the time but with some things which spring to mind like Vader domes for one and while they have a link they are not true pieces to the screen used in the final look and finish. This is evident to anyone who knows about these things as well as him upgrading parts over the years and sticking to the same story. Most things DO need modification but the good stuff that doesn't have heavy recast traits is far more subtle and looks more or less dead on with little to do.

Another aspect I believe is to be a true expert you draw resources from all areas and colaborate with others if you can. For argument sake if there is a detail you look into, six people looking into that area who have a good eye for detail is stronger than one and you come to a conclusion based on evidence submitted. That is my personal opinion and not referring to the above person.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:51 pm 
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Darthvaderv wrote:
Another aspect I believe is to be a true expert you draw resources from all areas and colaborate with others if you can. For argument sake if there is a detail you look into, six people looking into that area who have a good eye for detail is stronger than one and you come to a conclusion based on evidence submitted. That is my personal opinion and not referring to the above person.


That is my view entirely - and one I tried to make Gino understand a few years back. Its arrogant and frankly, pretty dumb to have any other approach

Cheers

Jez


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
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Location: San Jose, CA
Paul won't refer to the above person. I will! :toothy

After having been in the hobby for the last few years, I've come to realize that a great deal about the hobby has to do with powers of observation and memory of the details. A prop's back-story may or may not be verifiable, so you examine screen shots, production photos and any visual material and compare them against the real life object at hand. (I say "memory of the details" because you can get so myopic you lose sensitivity towards another feature. You sometimes have to take a step back and refresh your view of the whole prop).

Gino has good powers of observation. As much as he bullies people on how accurate he is, there are some blatant errors that show myopia that any fan can be vulnerable to. The irony is that I don't consider his Vader to be the "cast off untainted originals" and having the nearly stepped-off-the-screen look as he believes, and yet he has one of the absolute best and most life-like Yodas in the world. If you can abstract someone like Gino from all this "provenance" and "secret LFL sources" you have someone whose artistic eye can truly take him places. Since the Yoda he uses was a fan sculpt, the laurels of setting up a 1:1 scale display is solely based on a fan's powers of observation and patience. Were the values of the community reassessed along these lines, Gino would undoubtedly be a hero rather than having to stand in the limelight of half-truths, implications, bullying and deceit. Instead of trying so hard to play King of the Hill, he would have - in my eyes - been a hero.

(And as we've seen recently, it turns out that Gino's secret hush-hush LFL sources - specifically with respect to the inside of a screen-used Fett helmet - his source was a photo from vadermania who took various photos while at the LFL Archives. So Tom has now shared various archive photos on the Den. I suppose we all have secret LFL sources now! Thanks, Tom!)

We therefore need a greater spirit of cooperation. Paul will catch things Carsten misses. Carsten will catch things that I miss. And so on. When we combine our observations, we have a collectively improved understanding of a prop.

Jez, you did a great review of the screenused AT-AT driver helmet. You pointed out things I never noticed before. I honestly don't study the stormtrooper-related stuff to any level of depth, so your video coverage was most educational!


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:48 am 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
(And as we've seen recently, it turns out that Gino's secret hush-hush LFL sources - specifically with respect to the inside of a screen-used Fett helmet - his source was a photo from vadermania who took various photos while at the LFL Archives. So Tom has now shared various archive photos on the Den. I suppose we all have secret LFL sources now! Thanks, Tom!)


Not starting a fight Mac but everybody has that picture. I bet all the members of TDH have it. The only issue is that it was accidentally watermarked "starwarspropagander" when the picture was taken by vadermania. (by the way how about some more of those Fett pictures you were going to look for Tom?)
Gino never said it was secret. But I dont know why people will keep insisting that he has "secret LFL sources"? I have never ever seen or heard him make this claim. I may be wrong. And anyway we all have info we cant share what it is or where we got it. I have several stormtrooper helmet pictures I really want to post to help prove my point over in the stormtrooper thread.

Anyway back to business.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:38 pm
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Location: Essex UK
How do you watermark a photo by accident ?
And not only did he not watermark it by accident(that's so funny) he ignored Tom when asked about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:17 am 
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In regard to Gino's comments about Jez, if he was really so capable of assessing what that Vader suit was, then he would have to have superior reference material. If he had superior reference material, don't you think he would show it off? Duuhhh! That's all he would do. So? That tour suit Vader helmet blows Gino's ANH Vader helmet out of the water even in the condition it is in.....so what exactly was he going to use for reference to determine the authenticity of the tour suit Vader helmet? His own? :slp


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:48 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
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Location: San Jose, CA
Midnight Trooper wrote:
Not starting a fight Mac but everybody has that picture. I bet all the members of TDH have it.


Just because everyone supposedly has it (I didn't), it doesn't mean it's right to steal and stamp your name on it and to present it to the world like you were the image's originator. That image was photographed by Tom and given to a select few people. Gino finally obtaining it and posting it as if it was proprietary to his website is sad, just sad. What kind of moral values are you defending here, Midnight?

Following someone because he helped you is a good thing. But blindly following someone for such repugnant behavior and then maligning those who oppose poor behavior... that's something I just can't fathom.

I wish Gino trained his fans better, as having a better eye for Vader-related props would help them see what we've been seeing all along rather than regurgitate things along the lines of how everyone else is "jealous" of him, or have "personal issues" or "don't believe a thing they say today because they believed Ainsworth yesterday".

I have never had one of Gino's following properly debate prop observations. They always attack the person, distract the issue, evade direct questions on the prop, and never truly see what everyone else sees. Ask a valid question on RPF and they behave like attack dogs, drowning out reason with ridicule. Enough said.

I'll take that MP tour ANH helmet any day over Gino's. If the man who sculpted Vader 30 years ago didn't think well enough of Gino's display to feature it on the cover of his autobiography, I think that should tell you that the man who sculpted Vader may have a better eye of his own creation than you or I do.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:26 am
Posts: 337
Mac I really think that picture was on TDH Boba Fett reference CD's. I respect where it came from but honestly I didnt know or care prior to me learning the story from Tom. I have had it shared to me a few times besides having it on CD so its really not rare anymore.
And yeah, Gino watermarked it just like every other picture he posts. I am sure he never even thinks about it. Surely its not the first time this has happened. I can think of some others. But its really hard for me to believe it was malicious. What possible reason for doing it can you come up with when he knew full well that everyone had the picture? Again I dont really approve of the way he handled it but it is what it is and not what you think it is.

And you are still insulting me severely Mac. Guess what, I am predominately a Boba Fett collector. Gino isnt my largest source for Fett info people like Art Andrews, Singleseat, Lee Malone etc are. And I even made some discoveries they hadnt. So before you go running your mouth about how I should be "trained better" by Gino (to be his little puppet perhaps?) and dont see what everyone else sees just remember I am my own man. I am getting really pissed with the same old routine.
Why dont you look at my arguments for once? I do see what everyone else sees but quite often , I disagree with what they see or the predetermined logic through which they see it.
I have tried pointing out different logic and plausibilities with Vader and troopers and get nowhere. Even when comparisons are flawed and I say so it gets me no where. Remember when you compared Gino's trooper helmet back and cap to the Dave M. and didnt understand that several original helmets look different in that area due to the vacforming? I remember. So when the same person wants to compare Vader helmets I am a bit wary but I give benefit of doubt. When I see a doubtful compare being used to prove facts however... Then I have to speak up so that these "facts" arent set in stone prematurely.
Maybe I should just go back to saying nothing? I dont seem to be getting through. Once you get of the Gino topic and start back in to props we have nothing to talk about. I certainly dont want to hash it all out again.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:59 am 
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Let's keep the focus on the props and not the people yammering about them. I'm sure all can find some dirt in my prop past that can be used to invalidate my person in any conversation, when trying to make my observations. Is that really the prop community we want, where everything is held against you, even if you are right and have a point?

Personally... enough with GINO. He's not here, so why should we bother talking so much about him? He's not the end all, be all of all things Star Wars... and he's not a prop - neither is anyone else. So focus people... focus on the prop!


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