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 Post subject: TIE Pilots: Dan Laws vs. AA/SDS
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:54 am 
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Thoughts, comments? I'm interested in what you guys think. The picture on the right looks a little bulbous as if it were photographhed a bit too close, so there is some perspective distortion. The picture on the left looks like it was photographed a little farther away.

I like the aesthetic of the one on the left much more. It looks like a Stunt helmet that was built out to be a TIE pilot. The one on the right looks like it kind of melted and the proportions somehow look off to me. But this is not my primary area of study.

Thanks.


Last edited by CSMacLaren on Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:19 pm 
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Right - I dont want to wind anyone up and am honestly not baiting....

BUT!

I am absolutely 101% sure that the SDS is far more accurate than the laws (which I really do like and have 2 - one a WIP ATAT).

Anson's mate did a good TIE (may have been a sds face - again not looing for trouble here) which would be a closer comparison to the screen used than the Laws

As you know I had access to an original TIE for quite a long time and took a lot of pics and Andrews is very close. Oh and BEFORE anyone even starts to think that AA's moulds came off that TIE then I can absolutely hand on heart say that they definitely did not - If they did then the Mohawk would be a lot more accurate than it is on the SDS :lol

So I'm not criticising the Laws helmet at all, I currently have my SDS TIE helmet on the Laws armour and it looks freaking great. However the face just doesnt look like the original TIE faces which was a lot fatter than the stormtrooper - and may suggest why the SDS stormtrooper Hero looks slightly odd.

But IMO the Laws helmet just isnt anywhere near as accurate as the SDS

Cheers

Jez


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:15 pm 
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As far as I can see the laws has a 'skinnier' faceplate than it should.

Myself and the maker of the IH Tie saw an SDS for the first time about 5 months ago.
It's a beautiful helmet but the faceplate on it looks a little too wide for some reason - it looks as though it's been squashed.
Chris (voice in the crowd) from the RPF has confirmed the faceplate from our version doesn't come from the SDS - it's very apparent if you put them side by side.
Here's a quote from Chris on the RPF;
Quote:
I was lucky enough to meet up with the maker of this helmet in Ireland last week. I took along my SDS TIE helmet for comparison and even though they had obvious similarities (they both look like TIE pilot helmets tongue.gif ) I can say categorically that this helmet is nothing to do with an SDS. The helmet maker explained where his pieces came from and there is no real cloak and dagger scenario going on here. Its a really nice helmet smile.gif


Chris's SDS Tie was the first we've seen - honestly Jez!

All the best - Anson


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:33 pm 
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Bingo,

Can you do a photo comparison between the SDS, the Laws and the prop - and, if possible, using similar photographic distances and angles? That would be a valuable study for the community!

Is there some allegation going around that AA based his helmet on recasting the work of Dan Laws? Sorry, I don't understand that part of your response.


Last edited by CSMacLaren on Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:40 pm 
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Anson,

Quote:
Myself and the maker of the IH Tie saw an SDS for the first time about 5 months ago.


I'm new to all this. What is an IH TIE? Is this the same as Dan Laws? Are you friends with Dan Laws?


Last edited by CSMacLaren on Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:01 pm 
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Hello Mac,

The IH is a new TIE helmet, totally different from the TE/Laws - been around for about a year.
It's got the distinction of being the first uber accurate Star Wars helmet produced in the Emerald Isle.
Unfortunately there's only been 5 ever made - they're tough to do properly.
I'm trying to get the maker to make more and to do a nice AT AT helmet too.

Here's some photos;

Image
Image
Image
Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:15 pm 
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Here is another comparison photo. The face on the left doesn't look so narrow from this perspective. And remember: Bingo's helmet may suffer from some perspective distortion (so people, please consider standardizing on photographing 4 to 5 feet away to minimize perspective distortion -- it would be very helpful to the fans!)

I see a divergence of opinions and I don't know if I'm opening up a can of worms that's going to become political. I'm a newcomer to the study of TIE Pilot helmets. When I was a kid, I instantly felt they were cooler than the regular stormtroopers.

The purpose of my question is: what do each of these helmets look like in relation to the original prop.

I don't want to buy something if the reasoning is automatically "Buy Andrew Ainsworth because he has the origina molds" irrespective of mold deterioration and deformation because -- and with all due respect -- that would be dogmatic. Hypothetically speaking, if Gino's Stunt Stormtrooper was based on an actual prop from 1977 and Ainsworth recently made a casting of his from his molds but the mold suffered deterioration or deformation and no longer perfectly resembled the helmets of 30 years ago, then as a collector I would prefer a Gino over an Ainsworth irrespectof of Ainsworth's mold's lineage because the Gino is proportionately and structurally more true to the original prop.

(Case in point: http://www.looksirdroids.com/davin_replica2.html)

There are very few people who have seen the prop of the TIE Pilots. I've yet to see HD screen captures of Ep IV's Death Start battle scene to look at the TIE Pilots (if someone can post them that would be great).

Image

Now when I examine these two from this particular angle, the Dan Laws helmet's face doesn't look so narrow, but if you're talking "narrow" as in relation to the dome the black trooper facemask is wearing, then I undertand what you're saying.

But then again, it's perspective distortion. What that means is if your camera is 2 to 3 feet away, then the facemask will look larger and the helmet will look proportionately smaller. This is a false positive. I am therefore hoping Bingo can rephotograph his TIE Pilot so we can do a more accurate comparison -- without the perspective distortion.


Last edited by CSMacLaren on Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:16 pm 
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Anston, is that IH in your possession?

Can you stand back 5 feet and rephotograph the helmet from slightly different vertical angles? I can then select the closest match to existing competitive helmets and do a fair comparison.

Thanks -- and thanks for sharing on IH. What does IH stand for, by the way?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:34 pm 
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Now in terms of structural proportions, I vaguely recall reading somewhere that Ainsworth said that the TIE Pilot was based on the regular stormtrooper's molds.

If so, and if it's based on a stunt trooper, and if someone definitetively knows this, please clarify on this.

Assuming this to be the case, I did some photoanalysis. This stormtrooper helmet is an actual prop from 1977 and one of the helmets that form the basis of Gino's Stormtrooper offering.

Image

You will notice that the Dan Laws helmet appears to build on top of a Stormtrooper stunt helmet. The telltale sign for me was the left eye's bottom eyelid upward "nudge".

Also, in my observation, the Dan Laws mouth has the same number of teeth holes as the stunt helmet, whereas the Ainsworth appears to have the same number of holes as a hero helmet. Is this an accurate observation to you? I also notice that the IH helmet has the same number of teeth holes as the Dan Laws.


Last edited by CSMacLaren on Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:39 pm 
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Anson - sorry mate - like I said my post wasnt meant to wind anyone up - so if Chris says its not then thats fine with me

Mac - I agree with many of your points and can totally agree that someone should not buy an SDS just because of who made it. I personally love the sds stormy but understand why others dont.

However the TIE is different imo as I feel the SDS is extremely accurate (bar that bloody mohawk that I wish AA would redo) , and thats basing my opinion on spending a lot of time with an orignal. My only regret there is that the owner of the original received the offer before AA did the TIE so the two were never side by side - however I did take some pics of a Laws (previous known as the TE) side by side with the original (and also a Laws and SDS side by side a few months later).

If you were to ask me which is the most accurate, SDS or Anson's mate then that would be a very tough call and I'd need to spend a log time deciding - but honestly I dont think the Laws is aywhere near that accurate and like I said thats not a slight on Dan as imo his work is superb - its just I dont believe you can take a standard HDPE trooper face place and turn it into a correct looking TIE without the sort of work that Ansons mate must have done.

btw when I mention the recasting of Laws issue, that ass Jumpin Jax suggested on Rebelscum that the SDS helmet and chestbox was recast off the Laws and theyre clearly a million miles apart to anyone with half a brain cell.

Here's some pics of an SDS (right) compared against "my" original (left) - Note they were not taken at the same time but I'm pretty sure the camera is the same, as in may cases is the table!

Image
Image
Image
Image


Cheers

Jez


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:41 pm 
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Actually... from what I have learned, then the TIE's face is the from the Hero Stormtrooper face mold, which in turn is from a reworked stunt - or simply the mold being cleaned up from stunt to hero casts.

Also, regarding the teeth... then all the teeth are both on the Stunt and the Hero, as they are from the same basic sculpt source, but differs in how many are actually cut out.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:44 pm 
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found some more pics

These an SDS helmet on a LAws chestbox and armour

Image

Image

Image

Image

..and the above (SDS/Laws Hybrid) against the inaccurate-but-I-still-love-it Don Post Deluxe set

Image

Image

Image

Cheeeers

Jez


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:48 pm 
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NoHumorMan wrote:
Actually... from what I have learned, then the TIE's face is the from the Hero Stormtrooper face mold, which in turn is from a reworked stunt - or simply the mold being cleaned up from stunt to hero casts.

Also, regarding the teeth... then all the teeth are both on the Stunt and the Hero, as they are from the same basic sculpt source, but differs in how many are actually cut out.


NHM absolutely - there was ONLY ONE MOULD.

50-60 Stunts were made
6 Hero's
14 TIE's

In between the Stunt and Hero's there was more cleaning up but there's no doubt that Stunt #1 would have looked different from Stunt #60 due to having to rush them, cutting them off the buck etc. etc

I'm not sure whether the teeth were blocked intentionally for the Hero's and Stunts or actually whether the air holes became blocked up on one side so AA filled them rather than redrilling

Cheers

Jez


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:53 pm 
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BingoBongo275 wrote:
However the TIE is different imo as I feel the SDS is extremely accurate (bar that bloody mohawk that I wish AA would redo) , and thats basing my opinion on spending a lot of time with an orignal. My only regret there is that the owner of the original received the offer before AA did the TIE so the two were never side by side - however I did take some pics of a Laws (previous known as the TE) side by side with the original (and also a Laws and SDS side by side a few months later).


So are you saying that AA's is not original but a rebuild? If his "mohawk" fails to be similar to the original prop then that would indicate AA is rebuilding/recreating his TIE Pilot just like everyone else.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:03 pm 
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BingoBongo275 wrote:
btw when I mention the recasting of Laws issue, that ass Jumpin Jax suggested on Rebelscum that the SDS helmet and chestbox was recast off the Laws and theyre clearly a million miles apart to anyone with half a brain cell.

Just noticed this. Please be civil in your wording and not personally attack someone in this fashion, even though they are not a user here. You are free to dislike whoever you want and let others know how you feel, but I think it can be done in a much more diplomatic way than this. Thanks.

Those are some very nice pictures. Have to admit I like the original the most for some odd reason! :thumbsup


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