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Would you be interested in adding this to your collection?
Yes 67%  67%  [ 10 ]
No 33%  33%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 15
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 Post subject: JMC ESB (Empire Strikes Back) Darth Vader Helmet!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:02 pm 
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Being a fan of Empire Strikes Back I have always enjoyed analyzing the various available fanmade ESB Vader helmets. I have found they all have certain strong points that I admire, however, I never purchased one for myself. I have always loved the look of the "perceived" longer dome skirt in scenes such as Vader in the Bespin dinner and meditation chamber scene.

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I happen to have a friend that who a professional auto-body tech known as "JMC" who was interested in developing an ESB Vader that would capture the "look" I envisioned. JMC and I spent 3+ months analyzing photos until he came up with an with ESB Vader helmet that I feel is worthy to be shared within this forum. It is our belief that no ESB Vader helmet will satisfy every fan; however, any and all opinions/criticisms are welcome. We simply wanted to share a helmet to be enjoyed by the forum. The results of the ESB helmet are "idealized" and not particularly 100% screen accurate as none are. Here are additional photos of the results:

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The helmet was fabricated by JMC while using only top of the line automotive materials and paint. The smoothness and gloss of the helmet is impeccable. The brow line is very noticeable including what appears to be a thumb print at the widows peak (apologies if the lighting does not illustrate this; below I tried different lighting effects taken at high and low angles to be able to highlight the brow part of the dome). Lighting can always entirely change the look of something photographed. I was simply trying to highlight the brow features so others to see the dome better in this set below. Feel free to analyze the heck out of the entire helmet if you prefer. :)

Lastly, I have included a poll below to determine potential interest if this ESB helmet ever became available to the public. Lastly, I want to give a shout out to JMC. He is a straight-shooter and trustworthy guy who is a pleasure to work with. JMC was initially resistant to having me highlight his work on the forum, but I felt that his work and skills needed to be shared given the effort and passion he put into this helmet.

JMC did ask me that if any individuals planned to use his photos, that you kindly not to alter, remove, or edit, his logos attached to the photo.
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I would appreciate if you could respond to the following poll below with any additional thoughts to this thread.

Poll:
1. How accurate do you feel JMC has captured the ‘essence’ of the Darth Vader helmet in the Bespin and meditation chamber scenes of The Empire Strikes Back?
a) Very Accurate
b) Accurate
c) Not at all accurate


Last edited by zachilles on Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: JMC ESB (Empire Strikes Back) Darth Vader Helmet!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:43 pm 
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I'm a bit confused.. so did you guys sculpt this? If not, what is the source of this helmet?


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 Post subject: Re: JMC ESB (Empire Strikes Back) Darth Vader Helmet!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:33 am 
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RBJ wrote:
I'm a bit confused.. so did you guys sculpt this? If not, what is the source of this helmet?

The helmet is a modified DP dome and a converted ANH facepiece that I "believe" is 20thC based.


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 Post subject: Re: JMC ESB (Empire Strikes Back) Darth Vader Helmet!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:21 am 
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Location: San Jose, CA
zachilles wrote:
RBJ wrote:
I'm a bit confused.. so did you guys sculpt this? If not, what is the source of this helmet?

The helmet is a modified DP dome and a converted ANH facepiece that I "believe" is 20thC based.



It's likely the DP came from a 20th Century itself. But the 20th Cent was not ANH when it first hit the public, it was ESB. So if JMC converted this from an already converted-to-ANH mask, then who owned the ANH mask to begin with? Did you guys obtain permission to modify someone else's mask?

And who is JMC? Is his real life initials JB?


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 Post subject: Re: JMC ESB (Empire Strikes Back) Darth Vader Helmet!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:56 pm 
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CSMacLaren wrote:

It's likely the DP came from a 20th Century itself. But the 20th Cent was not ANH when it first hit the public, it was ESB. So if JMC converted this from an already converted-to-ANH mask, then who owned the ANH mask to begin with? Did you guys obtain permission to modify someone else's mask?

And who is JMC? Is his real life initials JB?


It does look a lot like the JB ESBv2, with some smaller improvement in the details of the mask (thickened nose and mouth walls, etc). The mid-strip on the helmet is different, but the helmet does seem to have the exact same amount of flange extension as the JB. I hope it's not John.


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 Post subject: Re: JMC ESB (Empire Strikes Back) Darth Vader Helmet!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:42 pm 
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jf_nilsson wrote:
It does look a lot like the JB ESBv2, with some smaller improvement in the details of the mask (thickened nose and mouth walls, etc). The mid-strip on the helmet is different, but the helmet does seem to have the exact same amount of flange extension as the JB. I hope it's not John.


There are some smaller improvements, but some lack of improvements that point to a modified Don Post Deluxe which is exactly what JB started with in the first place. Did you pour over screenshots to study merely the paint or did you guys tweak the actual structures of the mask and helmets themselves?

People like SPFX and JB would modify their helmets here and there over time, but I agree there is an overall similarity with a JB.


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 Post subject: Re: JMC ESB (Empire Strikes Back) Darth Vader Helmet!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:55 pm 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
So if JMC converted this from an already converted-to-ANH mask, then who owned the ANH mask to begin with? Did you guys obtain permission to modify someone else's mask?

That's a bit surprising coming from you, considering.


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 Post subject: Re: JMC ESB (Empire Strikes Back) Darth Vader Helmet!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:45 am 
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Hi there,
Actually, I am new to these forums. I am honestly not familiar with the nuances of helmet making and politics of the forum. An auto body tech who loves the Star Wars films and works with fiberglass on a regular basis made this helmet. I stumbled upon the forums early this year when researching Vader photos, so I thought it would be nice to share the photos given the fans appreciation. As far as the history behind the helmet, I honestly don't have a clue other than what the maker told me.


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 Post subject: Re: JMC ESB (Empire Strikes Back) Darth Vader Helmet!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:51 am 
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Welcome to the forum world. Good to see a Vader project.

However, yes, there are rules that we tend to obide by. Basically an official product like a DP, Rubies etc is somewhat considered okay to modify or build on as a project for the greater need of accuracy. It's still a frowned upon template but many have done it over the years just like people are doing it already to the eFX.
I would imagine or like to think it's not for the greater good to just get money off the back foot of other companies but it does happen. The orginal intention was always to benefit Vader fans and give something back to the community due to the frustration with Lucasfilm or companies associated not putting out accurate representation's of what we see on screen.

Now, any modified casting like a CKing for example which already had work done to it is another members work so to speak. Modifying this and making copies would be frowned upon and considered recasting without permission.
Basically the template has to be an official product, otherwise you need permission from the original people involved.

A further grey area which hasn't really transpired other than some spanish and Mexico ebay sales is that SPFX and JB castings have been recasted. Normally it's because some people view those castings to have a shady history and that it's fair game.

There are a lot of politics in this hobby but it's fun and will keep your interest in Vader for years to come if you take it seriously. Sadly though you may not be able to make any copies unless the correct steps are taken. As an individual casting for yourself you can do what you like though.


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 Post subject: Re: JMC ESB (Empire Strikes Back) Darth Vader Helmet!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:23 pm 
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Being new to the forum and hobby you may not be aware of the history that many of us have lived through. It's a nice looking helmet, but I must admit I'm highly suspicious with the way it is being presented and how this creator is almost kept in mystery. We've had many dealings in this hobby with that kind of advertizing and makers and it should be known that we generally don't like being kept in the dark regarding new helmets and props showing up.

There has been plenty of scammers in the past latching on to unsuspecting people and make them advertize their stuff for them and then leaves once money has been exchanged and nothing is sent to people, leaving that unsuspecting member to take the fall. I'm not saying this is the case here, but this has made everyone in the hobby very suspicious when new stuff pops up without a clear cut and open history.

If it is, as some suggests, a JB helmet and JB is JMC, then it has to be said that JB has been banned from this forum for failure to deliver goods that was bought and paid for. It would be highly frowned upon to allow this person or others like him to get any chance of continuing to scam people out of their hard earned money, that is why it would be greatly appreciated that the creator and the full history behind the piece is revealed. It would be good to know who this JMC is, so we can get a clear opinion on whether it is someone honorable enough to deal with - and we would appreciate he came here himself so we can get to know him before he starts making any sales, as we are not too fond of proxy sellers, as there's just too much risk involved with that kind of arrangement.


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 Post subject: Re: JMC ESB (Empire Strikes Back) Darth Vader Helmet!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:59 am
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Hello members of this forum,

I previously posted the following on the RPF and want to post here as well.

I am the person who made this helmet for Zachilles. I am aware there are questions regarding this helmet hopefully I can answer them. I would like to say first that Zachilles is a 1st class gentleman. Zachilles intentions with this thread was to share photos of his helmet for the members to enjoy and in the process he added some kind words on my behalf. Thank you Zachilles.

I am a professional within the automotive fabrication, repair and refinish industry. I also happen to be a fan of Star Wars and on occasion I have tried my hand at fabricating Vader helmets as a hobby using mostly my Don Post as a base. Zachilles had an interest in owning a ESB version helmet so he supplied me with numerous photos and feedback of the look he wanted. This is how I made it:

The dome is in fact a Don Post that I heated until I got the skirt shape I wanted. Next, I used autobody filler to achieve an ESB style mohawk, widows peak thumb print, and sharpened brow line. I also extended the dome skirt slightly by again using autobody fillers.

The facepiece was given to me in trade by a customer of mine that needed paint work done to his vehicle. I was told by him that he acquired the facepiece through internet around 7 to 8 yrs ago. The facepiece appeared ANH style and in my opinion was poorly made. The owner had painted it himself and he had a homemade ring mount because he did not like the way the dome sat on the facepiece. I will admit I am no expert at analyzing the various facepieces that are out there and it is possible that he purchased it from one of the notorious venders around at that time or it could have been a recast of one of those venders. I modified the facepiece by cutting a ESB style lower grille vent, using autobody filler I enhanced the cheeks, nose area and neck. I also designed a better mount ring using PVC.

I am aware that a portion of Vader fans may frown upon the way I built this helmet. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I appreciate and respect everyones views.

I do not have plans of mass producing this helmet for profit. I don't have the time nor energy that would be involved. I made this helmet for fun as I enjoy building things. I hope that I have provided clarity regarding the helmet.

Lastly, I am a regular fan just like everyone else on this forum. I have no desire to scam anyone or to be secretive in anyway. If there were an interest and only if the forum viewed it as a positive I would consider offering a helmet from time to time. It would bring me joy to make a fan happy with a nice helmet. If this would cause problems I have no interest. I hope to bring only positivity to this forum.


Last edited by Jarenmcl on Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: JMC ESB (Empire Strikes Back) Darth Vader Helmet!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:28 pm 
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I would also like to add that I am in no way affiliated with any other vender past or present. I am not the person known as JB.


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 Post subject: Re: JMC ESB (Empire Strikes Back) Darth Vader Helmet!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:17 pm 
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I like the long back.


Last edited by jedijeffrey on Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: JMC ESB (Empire Strikes Back) Darth Vader Helmet!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:18 pm 
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I love the helmet!!!


Last edited by jedijeffrey on Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: JMC ESB (Empire Strikes Back) Darth Vader Helmet!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:33 pm 
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JMC is short for Jarenmcl on the forum. Never heard of the other individual(s) you mentioned. JMC posted a response detailing the helmet. I simply wanted to highlight his work given he is a straight-shooter and honest person. He is also a very talented auto professional who is really skilled with fiberglass and automotive paint. He also loves Star Wars films. He was up for the challenge of designing an ESB helmet and did a great job. I felt it would be great to highlight all the hard work he put into it by sharing it on the forum. He also provided regular updates of his progress on the helmet. He is an amicable and professional guy to work with. Sounds like some fans have had unfortunate experiences with other dealers in the past. Sorry to hear about other members' misfortunes with dishonorable past dealers. It must have been a frustrating experience.

Fortunately my experience has been great with JMC. As a side note, JMC did indicate that he would consider occasionally offering a helmet to the members only if it would bring a positive experience for all involved.

Hope this helps.


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