It is currently Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:29 am

All times are UTC


THE PROP DEN is primarily a Darth Vader Prop Discussion Board, but we also deal with other Star Wars Props as well as Prop Replicas from other movies. If you do not yet have an account, set one up, sign in and jump into the Vader Prop Discussions!


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 103 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next
Author Enter your Message here
 Post subject: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:59 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:38 pm
Posts: 39
Hey folks, I thought this would be a good starter post for me. I'm posting my experience with the MR Fett helmet and the casting of a real helmet that I have.

I want to answer what happened with the MR helmet and others you see with the taper.

I have a casting of the 2nd preproduction helmet. I'll go into that later in another thread if you folks might be interested. But the real helmet one of the upper eye slots juts out a little. Basically the original sculpt didn't translate well with a real visor installed. You can see this outward jut on many of the real helmets. It actually pulls away from the visor (upper left corner of the mandible). Since MR scanned a real helmet this imperfection is in the helmet. If you don't push it in you'll get that taper. It really takes some effort to that whole are proper and truth be know the vertical portion of the visor is actually angled off to one side. This anomaly is also what causes some helmets to look wider than others since you are pushing the entire left side out of whack. (left side being the point of view as it sits on your head).

At the factory they just slapped the visor in without trying to fix it or make it proper. Thus the improper look of the visor area. It's actually how the helmet looks just sitting there with the visor cutout. It takes some effort to get it proper and I doubt the factory spent the time to get it right. On the Sideshow piece I would suspect they used an MR helmet for reference, only way to explain it.

I included a photo of my personal helmet and you can see the visor cants off to one side. In the photo the area discussed is at the top right corner of the eye slot/mandible. Hope that makes sense I'm terrible at describing stuff at times.

Lee


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:42 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:58 am
Posts: 10465
Location: Denmark
Oh, I would definitely love to hear more about Fett. And too cool of you to share this info.

What a lovely cast.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:32 am 
Random avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:51 pm
Posts: 1329
Location: Geislingen, Germany
Oh that helmet looks great :thumbsup Interesting infos, thanks for sharing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:31 am 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:38 pm
Posts: 39
I could be totally wrong in my observation. But I wanted to share what I encountered with my experience with these. It totally bugs to see that taper.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:11 am 
Random avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:20 am
Posts: 197
Hey Lee+ all denners! The pinch effect was the biggest disappoint to me in the world of serious replica props. How ccould a company spend so much effort to make a product the same as the prop, yet accept such fatal flaw and send it out to the market place?
What a waste of effort? And I know many people don't care and just love the finish, but every time I looked at it and the COA card stating it refects the original, I cringed. As such I risked screwing it all and took to fixing it. To a person not skilled in modelmaking or prop work, it was a big gamble, but I had to do it to achieve some level of satsfaction in my boba fett centre piece. After
2 attempts I got it perfect. Finally some resolve, and its created the side flare seen on the screen helmet + missing from the MR version. Only problem I have now is my dissapointment in how the stencil for the dent was missplaced and a section of it is green, and the silver damage extend way to far into the dome. Again, with all the effort put into getting the paint work looking great, how could they let this blunder go on all of the helmets??
Perhaps I am too fussy than most who own it?

Lee, can you advise why the PP3 paint scheme was picked instead of the claimed ESB? After scanning the wrong helmet, they didn't need to make the same mistake twice?
Cheers
Mick
Rogue Studio wrote:
I could be totally wrong in my observation. But I wanted to share what I encountered with my experience with these. It totally bugs to see that taper.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:46 am 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:58 am
Posts: 10465
Location: Denmark
Mick, I'd love to see a picture or two of your reworked effort.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:25 am 
Random avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:20 am
Posts: 197
Forgot to mention.. Great posting + thanks for sharing the info. Good to finally know what happened here, as you can see it was a burning question for me.
Cheers
Mike


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:40 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:26 am
Posts: 335
Mick, IIRC the PP3 was in the archives at the time and MR thought it was the ESB and scanned it.
When Lee did his masters he informed them about this and also tried to stop them from putting the nubs on the keyslot insert as seen on the ROTJ style helmets. (the PP3 is missing the whole insert)

With all their reference of the PP3 paintjob, I think MR couldn't figure out why Lee's master didn't match, even after he explained it. Right Lee?
I don't think it was so much of a choice to go with the PP3 paintjob as it was probably just communication break downs.
Lee did what he could to get real ESB style paint.

That's how I remember it anyway.

On the visor pinch; mostly I agree with you Lee.
That mandible juts out on the real helmets, less so on the ESB since the visor is so closely fitted.(possibly contributing to a bit of extra flair as pointed out)
But the MR prototypes did not have it. I think the taper problem occurred when they messed with the visor installation method. Either a new mold master was made which had improper visor installation (tapered) or could it even be each time a visor is glued in? Mick, did it pop into shape when you took the visor out?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:32 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:38 pm
Posts: 39
Do you know why the protoype didn't have it? I'm just asking since I held both the originals in my hand and not fan made recast by you know who, I took them apart apart myself. I also have photos of the originals and me taking them apart. I think mostly what you are saying is conjecture and not from real experience with these helmets. I don't feel your OPINION is valid since it's nothing more you weren't in my shop and no one else was either. I have first hand on these helmets. To be honest don't listen me at all folks I went through this king of the hill game on TDH and I'm not into the games believe me if you choose don't believe anything and go with your own made up thing on it. You guy have my humble humble opinion above.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:22 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:26 am
Posts: 335
King of the hill is it? Why did you just get all pissy with me? This is a topic I wish to discuss which has interested me for a long time.
You might recall my interest in this helmet Lee and my many conversations with you about it.
I also have many pictures of the prototypes and a casting of the one Jason painted before it was repainted by you (now owned by RS props)

You will notice that I offered some info as I recalled events through my chats with you, also left plenty of room for clarification by your follow up post.
Instead you make it a battle of ego?
I am in no way trying to take away from your work on it and you know I have always had the greatest respect for those paintjobs.
I agree with the feature of the original helmets you describe and how it effects shape, just don't agree that is how the MR taper occurred.

I guess I should know better than to disagree with any MPPC Fett people but no, the prototypes did not seem to have any taper. Do you disagree?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:47 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:38 pm
Posts: 39
KB, you have motivations way beyond a general discussion. I'm not engaging.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:43 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:26 am
Posts: 335
WHAT??!! Lee you said you "could be totally wrong in your observation "
I happen to agree with most of what you said just said I figured it had to have happened after the prototypes since they don't have it. I have lots of evidence of this I would love to discuss if we were having an actual discussion.
Instead you fly off the handle after I filled someone in on a few details of the MR history as it was explained to me BY YOU.
I was respectful, gave you full credit for your work even filling people in on your efforts to have MR make a better product

You know we don't like each other. But you can never accuse me of being disrespectful about any part of your MR involvement. Your work on those helmets is a large part of why I got into the accuracy game and I learned a lot from you. I even insisted your paint list be kept up and in your name when TDH mods tried to remove it.
So what's my motivation here Lee? Did I give you too much credit? Trying to steal your thunder by giving you credit where credit is due?
There was no fight until you started it. My opinion is plenty valid and educated and I have evidence to support this. It's just a theory like yours. But apparently I can't contest you without it being mistaken for an ego trip.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:32 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:26 am
Posts: 335
So, despite my supposed "motivations" how about a general discussion?
I think the visor taper was caused by visor installation but not in the way Lee is describing. I think bottom was squeezed in too close together during an assembly either in a later production prototype, or due to the assembly system on the production helmets.
None of the prototypes seem to have it. And although many are shown without their visors, the paint masters are shown with visors installed in a different way than the final production method.

Here is the original paint master painted by Jason Eaton.
Image
No discernible taper.

Here is the same helmet in Lee's garage next to one of his plug castings. (photo by Lee)
Image
No taper.

Here the topical paintmaster by Lee. (same helmet as previous two pictures?)
Image
No taper.

Here is the prototype casting identical to the one I owned until last year. Lee's helmet is on the right. (no bearing on the discussion but it was just being compared in the picture)
Image
No taper on the MR yet but a slight bowing effect is easier to see here than in previous pictures.

Another prototype.
Image
No taper.

SO I hope to have confirmed for you that the prototype helmets did not have this problem, even with the visor installed by whatever method used prior to production.
Now things get ugly.

Early production sample.
Image
You can see a bit of taper starting. I assume this is Not the final visor assembly method because it doesnt have the lip inside.

Production helmet. (photo by Jez)
Image
Taper is in full effect here.

Production helmet
Image
Here a fan has corrected his helmet.
He notes that he couldn't spread the bottom apart any more because the screw holes in the visor would show on the front.

All this to simply clarify what I originally said "I think the taper problem occurred when they messed with the visor installation method."

Lee you said you think it was due to the shape of the upper part of that mandible.
I think it was because they made the visor too narrow at the bottom and had to pinch it together a bit to assemble it.

Not a big deal I think? Certainly not worth this mess I just had to post.
You could have just said something like "Could be. Nobody really knows do they?" Because neither of us know for sure. You even say you could be totally wrong. But you shared your opinion, I shared mine. Yay discussion forum! :cool:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:06 am 
Random avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:20 am
Posts: 197
Dude- Midnight Trooper........
First you antagonise Sith Lord over calling Gino for what shows itself as misleading claims over "direct linage form original", make an issue over & what i read then as "shit Stirring", trolling for a fight.

then you troll for a fight with a very respected person in the business who's just poked his head up on this forum after having a gut full of the ..."Ive got a bigger saber than yours"... horseSh#t seen on the rpf & tdh. hes tried to avoid this.

Your obviously good at debating, but leave out.
personally-
1) i dont like the politics- Star wars was never about this, & to my 5yr old whos going thru the same amazement as i did when i forst watched it, there is no such thing as ego politics. just Tie-fighters, x-wings, rancors & the best of all DARTH VADER! thats the essesnce of star wars & is the way it should stay.
2) i liked SL critical review on Ginos lid. It makes good sense to my critical eye.
&
3) I like hearing what a experienced professional, Rogue Studios has to say about Fett & the other authentic/ high quality studio scale props etc that hes been involved in.

Mate- if your an expert on Fett, great, but dont go flogging the newcomer with it.... i hope you havent scared him off with your past politics

please post again Lee!

"im a lover not a fighter"...Mickxc!


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:56 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:58 am
Posts: 10465
Location: Denmark
Let's try to keep things civil and remember that I have an Armalite AR-18 on the way, so, respect my authoritaaaa!












(Nobody needs to know it's sixth scale... and it can still poke your eye out, so be nice!)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 103 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

All times are UTC


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Blue Moon by Trent © 2007
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Hosted by Freeforum.ca, get your free forum now! TOS | Support Forums | Report a violation
buy web visitors
MultiForums powered by echoPHP phpBB MultiForums