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 Post subject: TD ANH....the earliest example of Vader...?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:17 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
Ya I'll just say the TD, SL and TM eyebrows are all different, with the TD being the earliest version. But that's for another thread.


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Darth Karo wrote:
:lol Sorry, but I gotta comment on this one. The TD didn't come from a mold that directly made the original because it has tabs. It didn't come from a mold similar to the SL because it has tabs. It didn't come from a one time only special mold because the imprint on the chin vent matches the TM and later casts. I could go on and on, but 1 other thing, the cheeks on the TD and the TM are practically identical and much different that the SL. Guess what? The SL's cheeks are closer to ANH than either of the two. Go figure. :rolleyes



Ok so let's have at it here. And I don't mind discussing the TD or arguing about it....all part of the hobby ok.

I know that it didn't come from a mold that made the original. I also know that it didn't come from a mold similar to the SL..that is obvious. Yes the imprint on the chin matches the TM.

And gee, I wonder where you got the information about the cheeks? Hmmm? But yes the cheeks on the TD and TM have something in common. But if you got your information correct...that carries over to ESB and ROTJ. If you recall, I've stated previously that the ESB originals came from something along the TD/TM lineage and not the SL lineage.

I was planning a thread at some point again about the TD in any case since I have pretty much nailed down that it is something earlier than the SL. The SL would represent the screen helmet just near the end of production, whereas the TD seems to represent the screen mask from an earlier point in the production before some alterations were made. The indication I have of this is that it seems now to me that something happened to the end of the tubes during production, they were cut short and reworked. But there were other changes too.

And this isn't about whose casting is better. Different castings are from different times. And each has something to offer.

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Last edited by SithLord on Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH....the earliest example of Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:19 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
And this isn't about whose casting is better. Different castings are from different times. And each has something to offer.


I'd like to believe you, but I don't. After more than one 20+ page chasing down a runaway train of myopic focus upon a scratch that turns out to be a crack in the fiberglass and not an inherited trait, since then each post on the TD has been to one-up the TM. It's amazing how you went from it being an original production helmet to being the father of the ESB helmets (and the TM itself) to being the father of the 20th Century masks.

Okay, let's make this a 1 page thread and just acknowledge the superiority of the TD and give Thomas some closure.

The TD fathered the screen-used original.

There, it's said, it's done.

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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH....the earliest example of Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:27 pm 
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Mac, I'm not interested in your sarcasm.

If you are not capable of having a serious discussion about Vader then stay out of the thread. I didn't ask you to post here.

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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH....the earliest example of Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:29 pm 
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Sarcasm versus an on-going self-promotional agenda?

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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH....the earliest example of Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:32 pm 
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I'll start with this since I showed it before. This particular triangular indentation on Vader's left tube convergence is clearly seen onscreen. The only mask I've seen it retained on is the TD. I would expect there might be a remnant of it on an ESB with intact tube ends but haven't seen it yet on the Paul Allen stunt ESB, or any other casting including the SL. The reason it is gone on the SL is that the tube ends were reworked. Since the SL represents the screen mask at the end of the ANH production and just prior to the tour, this would mean this reworking occurred earlier than the Tantive IV scene. I've been trying to figure out when but the Tantive IV scenes are the only ones close enough to evaluate objectively at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH....the earliest example of Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:33 pm 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
Sarcasm versus an on-going self-promotional agenda?



Like I said Mac, your aggressive and rude intent is unwelcome, it is baiting. If you want to learn more about Vader, stay in the thread and participate constructively. If not then I would appreciate you staying quiet.

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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH....the earliest example of Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:35 pm 
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How many times have you tried making statements on how the TD predates the TM? It fathered the TM? It was one of the three original production ANHs?

The story keeps changing but the need to have the TD superior in provenance is quite clear.

Are you denying you've done all this then?

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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH....the earliest example of Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:37 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
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Remember the scratch that took us on a 20 page tirade of how superior the TD was to the TM? You ignored the other 13+ scratches on the opposite side of the mask.

And they weren't scratches. They were cracks in the fiberglass.

Yes, truly, let's focus on this one detail and ignore all others.

Strip the paint on the TD and all questions will be answered.

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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH....the earliest example of Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:38 pm 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
How many times have you tried making statements on how the TD predates the TM? It fathered the TM? It was one of the three original production ANHs?

The story keeps changing but the need to have the TD superior in provenance is quite clear.

Are you denying you've done all this then?



Well the TD does predate the TM.

It certainly didn't father the TM if you read what I wrote before. I stated before that they are from different molds.

When did I EVER SAY it was one of the three original production ANHs? Brian said it is a copy of the 3rd pull. Get your facts straight.

And if you want to drag the TM into this then I will discuss it as well even though I have been expressly asked not to and I have honored that request.

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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH....the earliest example of Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:39 pm 
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The title of this thread is misleading. There is no evidence that the TD ANH is the "earliest" example of Vader.

Please change it to "TD ANH - when was it cast?" or something to that effect. Otherwise this is simply a propaganda thread.

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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH....the earliest example of Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:40 pm 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
Remember the scratch that took us on a 20 page tirade of how superior the TD was to the TM? You ignored the other 13+ scratches on the opposite side of the mask.

And they weren't scratches. They were cracks in the fiberglass.

Yes, truly, let's focus on this one detail and ignore all others.

Strip the paint on the TD and all questions will be answered.



And? The TD and TM share that same major crack on the right side of the neck under the right lower tube. On the TD is it a crack in the paint....is it in the casting? I won't know until I strip the paint. But it is in the casting of the TM.

Nice how you ignore the first comparison I show. Typical. You base everything you know on the TM and ignore any detail it doesn't have but clearly appears onscreen.

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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH....the earliest example of Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:41 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
Well the TD does predate the TM.

It certainly didn't father the TM if you read what I wrote before. I stated before that they are from different molds.

When did I EVER SAY it was one of the three original production ANHs? Brian said it is a copy of the 3rd pull. Get your facts straight.

And if you want to drag the TM into this then I will discuss it as well even though I have been expressly asked not to and I have honored that request.


Yes, after we finally told you to focus on other things such as the cast tabs.

And you didn't ever post your belief that your TD was an original production helmet?!

I'm not dragging the TM into this. Look what you posted.

SithLord wrote:
Ya I'll just say the TD, SL and TM eyebrows are all different, with the TD being the earliest version. But that's for another thread.


YOU said it, not me.

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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH....the earliest example of Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:42 pm 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
The title of this thread is misleading. There is no evidence that the TD ANH is the "earliest" example of Vader.

Please change it to "TD ANH - when was it cast?" or something to that effect. Otherwise this is simply a propaganda thread.



Then you apparently don't know how to read. Do you know what the word EXAMPLE means? A copy. Hello.

Propaganda? That's another forum. :lol

But if you calm down a little bit you might learn something.

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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH....the earliest example of Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:43 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
And? The TD and TM share that same major crack on the right side of the neck under the right lower tube. On the TD is it a crack in the paint....is it in the casting? I won't know until I strip the paint. But it is in the casting of the TM.

Nice how you ignore the first comparison I show. Typical. You base everything you know on the TM and ignore any detail it doesn't have but clearly appears onscreen.



You blasted the TM for having an inaccurate crack compared with the TD, when in fact the "accurate" crack path was due to actual physical damage. You're the one with the microscope, not me. Now let's talk about the other 13 or so cracks on the other side of the mask.

Nice how you to ignore those other 13 cracks. You base everything you know on the TD and ignore any detail it doesn't have but clearly appears onscreen.

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 Post subject: Re: TD ANH....the earliest example of Vader
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:44 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
CSMacLaren wrote:
The title of this thread is misleading. There is no evidence that the TD ANH is the "earliest" example of Vader.

Please change it to "TD ANH - when was it cast?" or something to that effect. Otherwise this is simply a propaganda thread.



Then you apparently don't know how to read. Do you know what the word EXAMPLE means? A copy. Hello.

Propaganda? That's another forum. :lol

But if you calm down a little bit you might learn something.


Re-read my quote.

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